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Fixing a lid for a box (Read 1,415 times)
 
Jimmy Cusic
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Fixing a lid for a box
Sep 14th, 2005 at 6:01pm
 
Hi guys,  Need some help.  I was making a box and got the lid / lip too thin and it cracked. My thought is to cut  off the lip smooth so I have about an half inch flat surface. Then glue on a piece of maple to make a new lip to fit box.  Does that sound like the right way to go about it?? Maple is normal 3/4" stock (forgot the word for it). The box is Mondo has a reddish tint to it.  I have some Bloodwood that I could use too.  Suggestions about how to fix this and type of wood to use???   Here a link to the pic.

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Thx
jimmy c.
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Gil Jones
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Re: Fixing a lid for a box
Reply #1 - Sep 14th, 2005 at 7:22pm
 
Check out how Ken Grunke did it on this and others. Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
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« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2005 at 7:30pm by N/A »  
 
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Philip Peak
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Re: Fixing a lid for a box
Reply #2 - Sep 14th, 2005 at 7:56pm
 
I think a contrasting piece of wood like the blood wood or even walnut if you have it would add an appeal to the box.
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Ken Grunke
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Re: Fixing a lid for a box
Reply #3 - Sep 15th, 2005 at 6:12pm
 
jimmy, it's important to follow the same grain orientation when you do this--is your box end-grain turned? If so, the grain on the new maple piece should be aligned the same way else the glue joint may seperate after a while. End grain and cross grain expand and contract with changing humidity at different rates and directions.
If I make a new lip with a different type of wood, it's always the tenon (the male joint)--it's worth a try with your box to add on a female joint, but how will you mount the lid back on the lathe? Can't see if the chuck spigot is still there, but if not, a vacuum chuck or a jam chuck would likely work.
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Curt Fuller
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Re: Fixing a lid for a box
Reply #4 - Sep 15th, 2005 at 7:11pm
 
I'm getting pretty good a fixing screw ups, but from the pics I'm not sure exactly what you want to fix. If the rim of the lid is too thin and you want to save that lid then Ken Grunke's method looks like the answer. But another alternative would be something similar to the walnut box that Gary Ljostad just posted in the photo gallery. I'm sure his isn't a goof but it is a beauty of a box and you could do something similar by making a recess in your box and adding a new lid and final from some similar or matching wood.
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Jimmy Cusic
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Re: Fixing a lid for a box
Reply #5 - Sep 16th, 2005 at 10:02am
 
Yes the lid does have a tendon on the back side.
Ken, thanks for the pointer on grain I would have missed that.  The grain is running length ways, so when I add the new joint I need to keep the grain running the same way. Hmmm.. I'll have to think about that. 
You would agree that I need to cut off what is there and then glue the new stock.  Tight bond II ok?
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Ken Grunke
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Re: Fixing a lid for a box
Reply #6 - Sep 16th, 2005 at 4:08pm
 
Titebond II is good, that's what I use. On end grain, I rub in a thin film of it on each surface--I mean, RUB it in so it penetrates into the wood--then apply a little more on one surface before clamping. I clamp in the lathe, with the tailstock.
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Jimmy Cusic
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Re: Fixing a lid for a box
Reply #7 - Sep 16th, 2005 at 5:20pm
 
The cross grain has me stumped.  The grain on the box is running up and down. I was thinking of using blood wood or maple. What I have is  just normal 3/4" lumber. So the grain will run the wrong way, unless I cut 5 or 6 ,  1/2 pieces and glue them together to get a 3" wide piece. Am I missing the picture here, cause that doesn't sound right??? 

jc
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Ken Grunke
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Re: Fixing a lid for a box
Reply #8 - Oct 2nd, 2005 at 9:37am
 
Dang, I gotta remember to check the box for being notified of replies by email  Roll Eyes
Maybe you got it figured out by now but if not, I think you're on the right track.

Three ways to go about this (making a short slab of end-grain wood to form a new lip):

1.) Cut strips across the end-grain from your chosen lumber, and glue them together into a square big enough for your box's diameter as you mention in your last post.

2.) Glue up a segmented ring, 6 or 8 segments, from your lumber. I would rip just one strip on the tablesaw and cut that into 6 or 8 short pieces to form the ring. Set the saw at a 30 deg. angle for 6 segments, and 22 1/2 deg. for 8. To check the angle, run a piece of scrapwood through the process first. Cut it into small pieces, and glue together with CA glue--if you end up with a gap between the first and last segment, increase the blade's angle a tiny hair. If the space for the last segment is too small, decrease the angle (again, just a hair). A trial-and-error process that may take a while! Once you get the angle right, use Titebond to glue the final ring.

3.) Cut the lip from a solid slab of wood. This is what I do, I have preturned cylinders of various woods ready to cut a short section from. These are all from green wood, so they need to be dried before gluing. I use the microwave. I cut out the center first to make a thick ring, this minimizes the chance of cracking.

Befor gluing the lip or tenon onto the box, the mating surfaces must be flat. I do this mostly on the lathe, with a light shear-scraping cut. Use a straightedge across the end, with a light in the background to check for flatness. If I'm just a hair off, I'll take it off the lathe and rub across a sheet of sandpaper on a flat surface.

I glue the assembly on the lathe, using the tailstock as a clamp. After the glue sets, I may rough-turn the added piece a bit, but will not do any finish-turning until the glue has cured--at least a couple days.
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« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2005 at 9:46am by Ken Grunke »  

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Jeff Matter
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Re: Fixing a lid for a box
Reply #9 - Oct 2nd, 2005 at 12:33pm
 
Ken,
  I have have used CA glue ONE time on segmented stuff. If the miters are not DEAD on, then the piece will fly apart. Even if they are the bonding does not seem as good as wood glue. The CA seems to dry and cure much faster and doesnt penetrate into the grain as deep as wood glue.
In my opinion, good ole titebond lll or ultra works much better........ya gotta wait...but better than doin it again
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Ken Grunke
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Re: Fixing a lid for a box
Reply #10 - Oct 2nd, 2005 at 2:31pm
 
Couldn't agree with you more, Russ Fairfield tells all about CA's pitfalls in his section at Woodcentral:
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I was only suggesting it's use as a quick way for testing the angle with scrap pieces--one could also use double-stick tape or hot glue.

Maybe even easier and quicker is to lay the test segments in line on a piece of tape and just roll them up without gluing, just to see if they meet together with the correct angle or not.
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« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2005 at 2:35pm by Ken Grunke »  

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Jeff Matter
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Re: Fixing a lid for a box
Reply #11 - Oct 2nd, 2005 at 3:49pm
 

Didnt see the part about using it for testing!!   sorry.

I glue two halfves up, let dry, then push the half (2 edges)up to my chop saw blade ( not the teeth )........then lift the blade (scraping the 2 edges) and cut.........Thus just taking a 1/64 of each edge, truing it up, making it plane. Of course ya gotta really hold it down, cuz its not secure against the fence. After joining ur piece it  is slightly esentric, depending on the amount needed to tru it up....but it doesnt affect it much.......unless yur matching patterns and such.
 Since I made the miter sled, I dont hafta do any of that stuff
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« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2005 at 3:50pm by Jeff Matter »  
 
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