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I've got the black sandpaper blues (Read 2,403 times)
 
JR
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I've got the black sandpaper blues
Oct 23rd, 2005 at 6:19pm
 
Hello.  This is my first, but hopefully not last, post on this board.

I'm a beginner turner.  I've made a few projects, mostly pen and pencil type stuff, a walnut bowl, and now I'm working on a saucer.  Why a saucer, you ask?  Partly for practice, but also because I was given a very nice piece of fiddleback grained maple, 3/4" thick.  It's a nice looking piece of wood, and a saucer is hiding in there somewhere.

I turned down one side, sanded it thru 600 grit and applied French polish.  Looking closely at it, I noticed that the surface looked dirty in parts, with tiny specks, which I assume are particles from the black sandpaper from grits 320 thru 600.

So to finally get to my question:  What kind of fine sandpaper is available that isn't black?  And where can I get some?  I went to several hardware stores and homecenters in search, and found some light colored 400 grit made by 3M.  I think it's a new product.  I took chisel to wood and recut the piece and sanded to 400 with the new paper, and now it looks "clean", but the fine scratches are present from the 400.  I need finer paper, but don't want to use the black.

And, of course, I'm dying to finish this project. Smiley
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Negeltu
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Re: I've got the black sandpaper blues
Reply #1 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 6:32pm
 
The black 3M Wet/Dry sandpaper is great.  I use the 320, 400 and 600 grits.  I do not have the problem with it coming off on the wood.  I almost always sand to 600g.  Also, try not to apply too much pressure as it will often cause the problem you are speaking of when using cheaper abrasives.
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« Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2005 at 6:32pm by Negeltu »  
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Gil Jones
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Re: I've got the black sandpaper blues
Reply #2 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 6:43pm
 
The [black] paper you are using is probably for metal work. I have had the same trouble, as I still have a pile of 400 wet/dry black paper for use on metals. You can order sandpaper from [many places] that is suitable for wood, these are just a few. I use white colored disks with a zinc sterrate coating, and find that they work well. Others in this group will give you more ideas to consider.
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JR
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Re: I've got the black sandpaper blues
Reply #3 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 7:18pm
 
Thanks for the quick replies.

I guess I haven't paid enough attention to the type of paper I've been using.  One more thing to learn!

I took a look at what I used:
100 garnet 3M
150 garnet 3M
220 garnet 3M
320 black "Gatorgrit", type unknown
400 black silicon carbide, no name.  Feels coarser than 3M 400
600 black, no name and 3M (not sure which one I used)

The new paper I bought is 3M "Sandblaster" 320 and 400 which are gold colored.  I used these after turning off the black residue from before.

Gil, I think you are right that maybe the cheap, no name paper could be the problem.  I can't tell which paper is for metal or wood/metal.  Most of the black papers say wet/dry.  It could be that just one of the papers I used caused the problem.  I'll have to experiment.

I found a source online called Supergrit, which sells 600 white, non loading, zinc stearate, silicon carbide paper, 100 sheets for $22.00, which would last me a lifetime.  I'll also check the sources you mentioned, Gil.

I just wish I could find a local source, as now my half saucer has to sit in the lathe until I can order the paper.  Cry
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Gil Jones
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Re: I've got the black sandpaper blues
Reply #4 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 8:25pm
 
I do not know where you live, but I believe you could find 'usable' paper up to 400 at Home Depot. Some of that black, wet/dry paper is for sanding auto/aircraft paints. Most of my problems with black sandpaper making marks on the wood was [I think] from me sanding too hard and/or too fast a lathe speed. Either or both will cause excess heat, and make the problem worse. Try backing off the speed and pressure. Excess heat will cause failure of the adhesive used to bond the abrasive to the paper, and it then is forced into the wood/grain by [you guessed it] excessive pressure on the paper.
It was George [Negeltu] who mentioned the "cheap paper" problem, and he is correct.
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« Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2005 at 8:28pm by N/A »  
 
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Dave_Peebles
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Re: I've got the black sandpaper blues
Reply #5 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 8:35pm
 

Hello JR,

It may not be the sandpaper at all. I discovered early on that on some light colored woods I would get the same black spots. I finally traced it to a slight residue on my fingers from sharpening my gouges. The tiny particles of metal from sharpening would get on my fingers and leave these tell tale marks on the wood.

This may not be the case in your situation.... by it is another thing to look at.

Best wishes,
Dave
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Re: I've got the black sandpaper blues
Reply #6 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 9:34pm
 
Home Depot carries the Norton 3X paper up to 400.  Very good quality, but watch how much pressure you use because it really takes off the wood.  Much better than their basic paper and not much more $.

JimQ
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Mentor Basics, Pens, small stuff, Acrylics, EasyRougher.
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Negeltu
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Re: I've got the black sandpaper blues
Reply #7 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 10:00pm
 
Ah...  actually it's not the 3M paper I'm using..it is the Norton that JimQ just mentioned.  Just looked... sorry about that mistake.
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Philip Peak
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Re: I've got the black sandpaper blues
Reply #8 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 10:17pm
 
Welcome JR, I too hope this is not the last we hear from you.  Well, you did not mention where you were from so I can't tell  you if there is a source near you, but you might look and see if there is a WOODCRAFT store near you
  Here is a link to their store finder on their website.
 
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Also I too have gotten that gold paper (the 3X) from Home Depot and find it to be very good paper.
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The woodturner formerly known as PhilipE.  Willing to mentor members who live in the southeastern Indiana/Kentuckiana area (Louisville area)
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JimQuarles
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Re: I've got the black sandpaper blues
Reply #9 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 10:19pm
 
For shame, Negeltu, 30 rigatonis with a wet lash, or is that 30 lashes with wet farfala?  No, that's just a waste of good pasta.  Grin Grin

JimQ
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« Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2005 at 10:20pm by JimQuarles »  

Mentor Basics, Pens, small stuff, Acrylics, EasyRougher.
Just Turnin' Around!  Glendale, AZ  Cool Cool

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JimQuarles
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Re: I've got the black sandpaper blues
Reply #10 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 10:25pm
 
JR, Welcome to the board.  As you may have noticed, we take a very light hearted stand on formality here.  Feel free to put your 7 cents(inflation) in anywhere. Grin

I've only been a member here for about 3 months and feel that I have made some very close friends.  You will too.

JimQ
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Mentor Basics, Pens, small stuff, Acrylics, EasyRougher.
Just Turnin' Around!  Glendale, AZ  Cool Cool

"Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time.
I think I've forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 
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Negeltu
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Re: I've got the black sandpaper blues
Reply #11 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 10:32pm
 
hehe. 

In using the Norton sandpaper I've noticed I get better results using it if I soak it in water.  It really does seem to last longer.  I've also had good experiences with the 3M Sandblaster paper.
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JimQuarles
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Re: I've got the black sandpaper blues
Reply #12 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 10:37pm
 
JR, you will also want to register on the Chat and Gallery pages.  They are seperate software programs so you will need to register your user name and password on each one.  For simplicity, and so we can tell who it is, use JR like your did here.  And you can use the same password if you don't want to remember 3 different ones.

Chat is on the Home page, and the gallery is on the gold banner.

JimQ
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Mentor Basics, Pens, small stuff, Acrylics, EasyRougher.
Just Turnin' Around!  Glendale, AZ  Cool Cool

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I think I've forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 
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JR
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Re: I've got the black sandpaper blues
Reply #13 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 11:08pm
 
Thank you everybody for your input and warm welcome.

Sorry that I misquoted someone.  I have trouble remembering who gave what advice, so this time I took notes!

Negeltu and Gil:  On pressure and speed:  I think this may have been my biggest blunder.  I was sanding at high speed and the paper was getting pretty warm (hot!).  After I had skimmed off the black marks, I slowed the lathe way down in the 500 rpm range and resanded up to 400 grit with lighter pressure.  This was with the new 3M paper, so of course there were no black marks.  But I got a good finish, but still need to sand finer.

Dave:  It is possible that my scraper was not clean as I had not been too thorough with wiping it off after grinding.  I'll have to be more careful about that after this.

JimQ:  I haven't seen the Norton brand, only the 3M, at Lowes, Menards, and Ace Hardware.  Haven't checked Home Depot yet.

PhilipE: I'm about 40 miles west of Chicago, and there is a Woodcraft store 21 miles from here in (appropriately named) Woodridge, on Woodward Ave.  I just might have to take a road trip!

Thanks again everybody for the help.  I now know that I have to pay more attention to speed, pressure, quality of paper, and cleanliness of tools and hands.  Guess I was taking the sanding process for granted, but there's more to it, and probably still more to learn about it.
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Boots
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Re: I've got the black sandpaper blues
Reply #14 - Oct 23rd, 2005 at 11:10pm
 
Hi junior,


Over here in the UK we can get what is called NYWEB pads,  three grades of nylon type abrasive pads,   standard extra fine and ultra fine,  Its sold by chestnut products, its an open mat pad. on some timbers when using sandpaper after it is polished the dust left in the grain shows up as white flecs, some like it some dont, some dont know and think its part of the timber anyway, but with the nyweb pad it removes all the dust because its an open mat, I use it all the time. gets everything out providing you use dont have to big a jump from grade to grade which goes with any form of sanding, so paper first then pads, I'm sure a simmilar product would be available across the pond. can be used wet but wouldn't advise it, any  moisture on the surface is surely going to lift or swell the soft part of the wood and not the hard giving an uneven surface.

When are we going to see some pictures of your work?

Boots  
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« Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2005 at 11:14pm by Boots »  
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