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sanding sealer (Read 5,931 times)
 
Tony Wheeler
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sanding sealer
Oct 13th, 2007 at 1:22am
 
In another post Ron in Drums I think made a statement about not using sanding sealer that it blocks oils from pentatrating the wood.  I have always used standing sealer in pieces that wanted to tear out and on anything else that had cracks that was to be CA ed this stopps the CA scars.  I gues that I thought that most of the sanding sealer would be turned off or sanded out .  If this is not a good idea then what is there to do to keep the CA from staining or scaring as I have heard it called the wood.  I sure dont like the looks that the CA leaves without the sealer.
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« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2007 at 1:23am by Tony Wheeler »  

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Re: sanding sealer
Reply #1 - Oct 13th, 2007 at 4:33pm
 
I'm not sure that I remember this correctly, BUT, I thought what Ron Drums was saying was that if you have an oily wood, like cocobolo, the oils in the wood will hamper the curing process of the sanding sealer.  Some people, I think Recon it was, tried to seal a piece of oily wood and the sealer was still "wet" or "tacky" about 4 days later.  Yikes!

If this isn't what you were talking about then please correct me.

Dan
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Chuck Beland
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Re: sanding sealer
Reply #2 - Oct 13th, 2007 at 6:05pm
 
Dan,
Your right it was me when I made those finials for the ring bowls. I used Gabon Ebony. I used sanding sealer & Minwax poly & after 4 days ther were not dry.

Chuck
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Re: sanding sealer
Reply #3 - Oct 13th, 2007 at 7:00pm
 
it probably my febmile mind  I remember what he had said to recon youre right but I was thinking in another post but maybe just a dangerous mind at work
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Re: sanding sealer
Reply #4 - Oct 14th, 2007 at 10:43pm
 
Wheels4, the application of sanding sealer does block the oil from penetrating as deep as it would on raw wood.  However, using sanding sealer, or, better yet, thinned lacquer, is becoming a well respected pre-treatment to our turnings before the application of tung, Danish, or boiled linseed oil.  By using thinned lacquer, you are getting the finish down deep into the wood and giving yourself a good surface to sand down to that smoother than smooth surface.  The oil can still penetrate, but will not go as deep since the lacquer has filled some of those pores at least to a certain depth.  What you will find is that you will need fewer coats of oil to achieve the same depth of finish.  I usually only need to apply 2 or 3 coats of oil before I allow it to cure prior to buffing.  It is like most everything else, do your experiments and decide what you like best.   
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« Last Edit: Oct 14th, 2007 at 10:44pm by Rev. Doug Miller »  

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Re: sanding sealer
Reply #5 - Oct 15th, 2007 at 4:33am
 
Doug,
My question was how can I stop the oil coming back so fast I tried a experiment on the fingers I used Acetone, Mineral Spirits, DNA before using Sanding sealer.

I did mess up I forgot which one I put on what fingers so experiment was a bust.

In this way do you just use a thinned down laquer as a sealer ?
will it stop oil from coming back & ruining the finish

Chuck
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Re: sanding sealer
Reply #6 - Oct 15th, 2007 at 8:50am
 
Hey Chuck.Hope I'm not reading the question wrong,but I don't use any sealer with oil and oil is all I use,but as Rev says you put the sealer(whatever type) on first and that just keeps the oil from penetrating so deep.As I said I use oil all the time and I just soak it on then periodically wipe it off untill the bleading stops,then buff and wax.Some woods will bleed much more than others,but with any I have used it has stopped in about a week.Some things just can't be rushed and oil is one of them.Hope this helped.
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Re: sanding sealer
Reply #7 - Oct 15th, 2007 at 2:38pm
 
There are two "basic" types of sanding sealer, home-made and store bought. Most sanding sealers are just a thinned down version of your finish. Store bought sanding sealers have other ingredients that may contain "flatting" agents which will produce a satin finish. For oil based finishes, mineral spirits or turpentine are used as the thinning agents.  So if you really “Need” sanding sealer, just thin down your finish.

The idea of using a thinned down finish is for the finish to flow more evenly not deeper. Oil molecules to do not soak into the wood deeper just because there is more mineral spirits in the mixture. But if there is less oil there is not "enough" to soak deep into the wood.

When you sand the dried sealer you are opening the pores of the wood just slightly so the next layer of oil will “almost sit on top” and the finish will flow more even and produce an more even appearance. This is desirable for something like a cherry or pine table top because we want an even color and these woods have a tendency to look blotchy on a wide surfaces. (Also, most table tops have a satin finish)

But as turners, we enjoy the look of an highly figured wood, so why hide it with a sanding sealer?

In Chuck’s case with ebony, it’s a little different story. Ebony is so dense that oil does not penetrate in to the wood. An oil finish needs to penetrate to dry properly, it if sits on top of the wood all you get is a gooey mess. As I mentioned in Chuck’s thread try this experiment. Place a lima bean drop of an oil finish onto a freshly sanded piece of wood and another drop of an oil finish onto a piece of glass. Come back in an hour or two and take a look at the two drops. Now let them sit for a day and take a look again. Ebony is so dense that it is almost like glass when it come to absorbing an oil finish.

When it comes to finishing ebony, I prefer no finish. But if you “gotta have” a finish, you need to use one that dries on the top of the wood, like shellac or lacquer.

Give me a day or two to catch up and I’ll write up how to “POP” the grain. Half of what you need to know is already in this post.
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« Last Edit: Oct 15th, 2007 at 2:40pm by Ron Sardo »  

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Re: sanding sealer
Reply #8 - Oct 15th, 2007 at 7:07pm
 
thin shellac or spit wash
one part shellac six parts denatured alchol is a good sanding sealer  it also will displace some oil
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Re: sanding sealer
Reply #9 - Oct 15th, 2007 at 8:06pm
 
ddt frederick holsclaw wrote on Oct 15th, 2007 at 7:07pm:
thin shellac or spit wash
one part shellac six parts denatured alchol is a good sanding sealer  it also will displace some oil


Spit wash??? what's in your coffee. Grin Grin
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Re: sanding sealer
Reply #10 - Oct 26th, 2007 at 8:15am
 
old term for very thin shelac coat
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Re: sanding sealer
Reply #11 - Oct 26th, 2007 at 8:17am
 
coffe
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Re: sanding sealer
Reply #12 - Oct 26th, 2007 at 1:45pm
 
I think all the replys are good and useful but Wheels4 originial question was what can he use to prevent staining or scaring from the CA glue when using CA on cracks or tear-out? George
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Re: sanding sealer
Reply #13 - Oct 26th, 2007 at 5:45pm
 
So called sanding sealers contain sterates, much like talc.  These fillers are what cause the muddying of the wood's surface.  Use a thinned material as an initial sealer to keep the CA from soaking into the wood and causing the stain/scar.
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Re: sanding sealer
Reply #14 - Oct 27th, 2007 at 12:54am
 
you also could use alittle bit of paste wax around the area before using the CA

Larry
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