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Wood Smoking (Read 1,864 times)
 
Leo Frilot
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Wood Smoking
Jan 24th, 2008 at 11:19am
 
OK, I've never heard of this technique before but it sounds interesting.  Borrowing a pic from Bernie, Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register how long does this take to accomplish?  Is it permanent? 
As I understand it, you place the turning in a bucket with a cup that contains a few drops of ammonia, and cover it up.  Anyone have anymore information on this technique?
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #1 - Jan 24th, 2008 at 11:40am
 
I gotta watch this one and see where it goes leo....i seen the pic also and sounds interesting ..if anything else would make a good sinus cleaner using the ammonia!...lol

Bob
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Ron Sardo
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #2 - Jan 24th, 2008 at 11:57am
 
Might be the same process for fuming oak

All you really need to do is make a small plastic tent to contain the vapors, (they'll harmful so be careful), place in a glass dish of ammonia, place in your piece and that's really it.   

How long depends on the strength of the ammonia.
Ace hardware sells an "industrial Strength" (10%) ammonia. You don't want to mess with the 29% stuff cause it will kill you.

The tannins are reacting to the ammonia, so wood with a high tannin content works the best.
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« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:00pm by Ron Sardo »  

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Tom Davis
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #3 - Jan 24th, 2008 at 11:59am
 
How do you go about rolling the ammonia and wood then keep it smoldering
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LIFE IS NOT A JOURNEY TO THE GRAVE WITH THE INTENTION OF ARRIVING SAFELY IN A PRETTY, WELL PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN BROADSIDE, THOROUGHLY USED UP, TOTALLY WORN OUT, AND LOUDLY PROCLAIMING
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #4 - Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:02pm
 
You are not really "smoking" it, you are fuming it.  Think of "smoked" meats, but instead of smoke you have vapors
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« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:02pm by Ron Sardo »  

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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #5 - Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:42pm
 
Seein' as how I hadn't heard about this before, you've got me hooked on giving it a try.  Thanks (I think) for the idea.  I'm happy to share my experience with the process; hope you'll do the same.

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« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2008 at 4:12pm by N/A »  
 
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Tom Davis
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #6 - Jan 24th, 2008 at 2:09pm
 
Ron Sardo wrote on Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:02pm:
You are not really "smoking" it, you are fuming it.  Think of "smoked" meats, but instead of smoke you have vapors


Guess I should have put a smiley there sometimes hard to show sarcasm or smart a**
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LIFE IS NOT A JOURNEY TO THE GRAVE WITH THE INTENTION OF ARRIVING SAFELY IN A PRETTY, WELL PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN BROADSIDE, THOROUGHLY USED UP, TOTALLY WORN OUT, AND LOUDLY PROCLAIMING
WOW WHAT A RIDE
 
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #7 - Jan 24th, 2008 at 2:53pm
 
Quote:
Seein' as how I hadn't heard about this before, you've got me hooked on giving it a try.  Thanks (I think) for the idea.  I'm happy to share my experience with the process; hope you'll do the same.



It a common technique used in darkening Mission Furniture.


Tom Davis wrote on Jan 24th, 2008 at 2:09pm:
Ron Sardo wrote on Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:02pm:
You are not really "smoking" it, you are fuming it.  Think of "smoked" meats, but instead of smoke you have vapors


Guess I should have put a smiley there sometimes hard to show sarcasm or smart a**


Sorry, I missed the joke Embarrassed
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Tom Davis
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #8 - Jan 24th, 2008 at 4:09pm
 
No big deal Ron and some time try lighting that salmon  Grin
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LIFE IS NOT A JOURNEY TO THE GRAVE WITH THE INTENTION OF ARRIVING SAFELY IN A PRETTY, WELL PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN BROADSIDE, THOROUGHLY USED UP, TOTALLY WORN OUT, AND LOUDLY PROCLAIMING
WOW WHAT A RIDE
 
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #9 - Jan 24th, 2008 at 6:54pm
 
Tom Davis wrote on Jan 24th, 2008 at 4:09pm:
No big deal Ron and some time try lighting that salmon †Grin

where you get large paper  Cool Cool Grin Grin
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just making toothpicks
 
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Ron Sardo
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #10 - Jan 24th, 2008 at 7:20pm
 
Boy, you can tell how dense I am, I finally got it.
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Tom Davis
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #11 - Jan 24th, 2008 at 8:50pm
 
ddt frederick holsclaw wrote on Jan 24th, 2008 at 6:54pm:
Tom Davis wrote on Jan 24th, 2008 at 4:09pm:
No big deal Ron and some time try lighting that salmon  Grin

where you get large paper  Cool Cool Grin Grin



Go to the papyrus store  Grin Grin Grin
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LIFE IS NOT A JOURNEY TO THE GRAVE WITH THE INTENTION OF ARRIVING SAFELY IN A PRETTY, WELL PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN BROADSIDE, THOROUGHLY USED UP, TOTALLY WORN OUT, AND LOUDLY PROCLAIMING
WOW WHAT A RIDE
 
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Leo Frilot
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #12 - Jan 24th, 2008 at 9:29pm
 
So, does the item have to be fully dried?  Can you use this technique on a wet piece?
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Ron Sardo
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #13 - Jan 24th, 2008 at 9:42pm
 
Never tried it wet, but is should. The fuming isn't very deep and would sand off. So doing your sanding first.
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Leo Frilot
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #14 - Jan 24th, 2008 at 9:54pm
 
Is there a list of woods high in tannins?  I'm hearing acacia and oak, but what are some others?  Sounds like it just might be time to experiment.
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #15 - Jan 24th, 2008 at 11:12pm
 
Do
NOT
do this inside your shop.  Fuming ammonia inside can can have fatal results.

JimQ
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #16 - Jan 25th, 2008 at 9:43am
 
Leo Frilot wrote on Jan 24th, 2008 at 9:54pm:
Is there a list of woods high in tannins?  I'm hearing acacia and oak, but what are some others?  Sounds like it just might be time to experiment.



All woods have tannins, some more than others. I've played around with the iron/vinegar technique for ebonizing wood for a long time. Since this also relies on the tannin content of the wood, the results should be similar.  BTW, as Jim pointed out, and I only hinted at, ammonia can be dangerous. You need to work in a well ventilated area.  Iron/vinegar solution is allot safer.

One thing that I have noticed is wood from the same species can have vary from log to log the amount of tannin that is present in the wood. This is why oak is preferred, even with a differing amounts of tannin from log to log, there is so much tannin in oak that it doesnít really make a difference.

A wood that I use allot for ebonizing is black walnut, which is also high in tannin, but Iíve noticed at times when ebonizing, I would get a ugly gray color instead of a deep black This was always disappointing. Working on a totally unrelated building project one day, it dawned on me that coffee and tea are high in tannins. Later I decided to try and paint strong tea on to wood then apply the iron/vinegar. Boy, did that make a difference. I then played around with maple, holly, poplar and other woods with good results. But I noticed that at times on some wood I would have to apply two applications to get it black enough.

One thing I failed to mention, painting tea onto wood raises the grain, so I would paint a coat of tea, let dry, lightly sand away the whiskers then apply the iron/vinegar solution.

Now, the differences that I see using ammonia vs iron/vinegar is in the application. Sap wood is low in tannins and when fumed will not darken. Painting on tea and iron/vinegar, you need to cover the complete piece, otherwise you will get an unsightly edge that didnít turn black. 

For those who are unfamiliar with the iron/vinegar solution, here is the recipe. Take a glass jar with a good sealing lid, (I use a pickle jar). Throw in some steel wool (even rusty nails if you wish) and cover with white vinegar. Let sit for a few days and that is it. Iíve been using the same jar for years and every once in a while Iíll add either more vinegar or steel wool.

This idea for ebonizing wood is great for collars and finials. It is a great, inexpensive and green substitute for ebony.
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« Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2008 at 9:49am by Ron Sardo »  

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Leo Frilot
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #17 - Jan 25th, 2008 at 10:51am
 
Ron Sardo wrote on Jan 25th, 2008 at 9:43am:
†Sap wood is low in tannins and when fumed will not darken. Painting on tea and iron/vinegar, you need to cover the complete piece, otherwise you will get an unsightly edge that didnít turn black.

Unsightly?  This is the main reason why I want to try this technique.  I like the 2tone effect. 
Ron, ever try to get polka dots or patterns with your solution?  Is there a lot of bleeding into other areas? I gues it depends on the grain.
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Re: Wood Smoking
Reply #18 - Jan 25th, 2008 at 11:26am
 
Leo Frilot wrote on Jan 25th, 2008 at 10:51am:
Ron Sardo wrote on Jan 25th, 2008 at 9:43am:
  Sap wood is low in tannins and when fumed will not darken. Painting on tea and iron/vinegar, you need to cover the complete piece, otherwise you will get an unsightly edge that didnít turn black.

Unsightly?  This is the main reason why I want to try this technique.  I like the 2tone effect. 
Ron, ever try to get polka dots or patterns with your solution?  Is there a lot of bleeding into other areas? I gues it depends on the grain.



Give it a try, maybe you would like it. I'd like to see the results if you do.
To me, it always reminds me of a kid using watercolor paints and the color drips down the paper. JMO
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