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Best Glue for OILY exotics (Read 770 times)
 
Grant Schoonover
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Best Glue for OILY exotics
Dec 6th, 2010 at 9:13am
 
In my experimentation into laminations and Celtic Knots, I had a Cherry and Rosewood knot fail while turning the knot last night.  I used fresh Tightbond II on all surfaces, and wasn't skimpy on the amount used.  when the knot came apart, I didn't see much evidence of glue on the rosewood. 

What glue would be a better choice for the oily exotics?
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Grant Schoonover
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Re: Best Glue for OILY exotics
Reply #1 - Dec 6th, 2010 at 9:14am
 
Looks like my post is closer to Scotts than I realized it would be.  I'm sure the answer is the same for both situations, but in my case, I'm going to have a fair bit more surface area to cover than a pen blank, so CA may get a bit messy/difficult to cover completely.

Thanks!
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« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2010 at 9:18am by Grant Schoonover »  
 
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Ron Sardo
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Re: Best Glue for OILY exotics
Reply #2 - Dec 6th, 2010 at 9:23am
 
How did you cut the wood for the Celtic knot? End grain or face grain?
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Wayne Fisher
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Re: Best Glue for OILY exotics
Reply #3 - Dec 6th, 2010 at 2:42pm
 
I find that epoxy and urethane glues work best, hide glue would be my third choice. Before gluing though, it is nessesary to wipe the wood down with alcohol or acetone. This removes the oil from the surface of the allowing the glue to bond.
The fun comes when you have to glue silver to these woods....thank goodness for threads.....
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Ken Ward
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Re: Best Glue for OILY exotics
Reply #4 - Dec 6th, 2010 at 4:07pm
 
I use titebond on just about everything,hey its been working for me for over 20 yrs,but when I am using exotics,and I use a lot of exotic wood,I never sand the glue joint with anything finer than 120 grit at the most,and I wipe the pieces down with accetone right before glueup.
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Grant Schoonover
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Re: Best Glue for OILY exotics
Reply #5 - Dec 6th, 2010 at 5:56pm
 
The body of the knot is end grain with batches made from Wild Cherry and some Mulberry, the laminations are face grain Rosewood. I expected some wicking of the glue into the end grain so I was sure to apply ample glue to both sides of the joint.  I'm in process on some that use Walnut for the laminations, and these are solid enough with the Titebond.

I'm thinking Epoxy would have been a better choice for the Rosewood. Live and Learn...
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Jeff McDonald
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Re: Best Glue for OILY exotics
Reply #6 - Dec 6th, 2010 at 6:04pm
 
Titebond.  Same as Ken said- sand if needed and accetone on oily woods.
Jeff
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Ken Ward
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Re: Best Glue for OILY exotics
Reply #7 - Dec 6th, 2010 at 6:10pm
 
The main thing to remember is wipe it down with accetone as close to the glueing process as possible and I believe titebond will hold as well as anything.Love that rosewood  smiley=beer.gif
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« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2010 at 6:12pm by Ken Ward »  
 
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Ron Sardo
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Re: Best Glue for OILY exotics
Reply #8 - Dec 6th, 2010 at 6:17pm
 
Grant Schoonover wrote on Dec 6th, 2010 at 5:56pm:
The body of the knot is end grain with batches made from Wild Cherry and some Mulberry, the laminations are face grain Rosewood. I expected some wicking of the glue into the end grain so I was sure to apply ample glue to both sides of the joint.  I'm in process on some that use Walnut for the laminations, and these are solid enough with the Titebond.

I'm thinking Epoxy would have been a better choice for the Rosewood. Live and Learn...


When you say "body of the knot" I'm assuming you mean the barrel of the pen. If so, your grain orientations are the best you are going to get.

Grant Schoonover wrote on Dec 6th, 2010 at 9:13am:
I had a Cherry and Rosewood knot fail while turning the knot last night.


You say the knot failed while you were turning, you need to consider that you have grain going in different directions, which makes turning all the more difficult. You may just need lighter cuts and sharper tools.

When I made Celtic Knot pens, I used Med CA glue to glue the part together. I also rounded the corners of the barrels and sanded all four sides on a belt sander. Next I would coat the blank with thin CA glue in hopes that the glue would seal a weak spot. Now I would place the barrels on the lathe to get the final dimension.  It really didn't matter if I was using oily woods or not, I always used the same technique and it reduced the amount of failures.

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« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2010 at 6:21pm by Ron Sardo »  

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Grant Schoonover
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Re: Best Glue for OILY exotics
Reply #9 - Dec 6th, 2010 at 9:59pm
 
Thanks for all the advice.

In my instance, I had already gently roughed the ~2" diameter ornament globe to round, then as I started shaping the globe when it came apart.  I guess this one just wasn't meant to be.  I had a bit of separation in another, but was able to use some thin CA to get it solid before final shaping.

Will try to post some pics of the final product once I get all this icicles turned over the next week or so.


Ron- Beautiful Pen.  how did you "fade to black" on each layer?  It doesn't look like you added a veneer layer to get that effect.
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« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2010 at 10:03pm by Grant Schoonover »  
 
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Ron Sardo
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Re: Best Glue for OILY exotics
Reply #10 - Dec 6th, 2010 at 10:31pm
 
Here I thought you were talking about a pen.

The reason Celtic knot pens stay together is with the help from the brass tube. Without that, gluing cross grain will be a problem. 

Did you hollow out the center?
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Grant Schoonover
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Re: Best Glue for OILY exotics
Reply #11 - Dec 7th, 2010 at 9:25am
 
I've completed and hollowed 7 globes.  The woods are either Cherry or Mulberry for the globes, and either Rosewood or Walnut for the knots.  Only the one failed, but I figured I would "catch" one of them to death, so I still have enough for all the stockings this year.

I was taking pictures of other completed projects last night, so I took these as well.  Its hard to tell from the picture, but there doesn't seem to be any glue on the rosewood.  I'm pretty good about the sharp tools/light cuts.

I've got a Celtic Knot beer tap to make for a customer next, and I'm going to run a steel rod down the center that threads into a chromed ferrul and finial.   I'm new to incorporating exotics, so I'll try the acetone first, then epoxy.
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« Last Edit: Dec 7th, 2010 at 9:29am by Grant Schoonover »  
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Vaughn McMillan
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Re: Best Glue for OILY exotics
Reply #12 - Dec 8th, 2010 at 2:53am
 
Great looking ornament globes, Grant.  smiley=thumbsup.gif
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