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Shop electrical question (Read 2,463 times)
 
Mike Oyama
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Shop electrical question
May 1st, 2011 at 12:03pm
 
Hope this isn't in the wrong place. I noticed that a thread about shop lighting was moved here, so I decided to start my question here.

My question is, what is the best way to control two circuits with one switch? I'd like to have the vac turn on when the lathe turns on, but have them on separate breakers.

How have others accomplished this?

Could I use a 220 switch, with one 110 circuit switched on each side? Are those switches isolated like that? I'm ok with having both circuits breaker handles tied together, so that if one trips, they both trip.

Would it be possible to use a relay to turn on a second circuit when the first circuit was switched on?

What about something like X10? I know it can be expensive to do a whole caboodle of them, but could I possibly use a couple X10 components to do what I'm trying to do?



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Vaughn McMillan
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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #1 - May 1st, 2011 at 4:48pm
 
I'm not an electrician, but I think using the "220 switch" (a double pole-single throw) could work, but it might not be allowed by the NEC. The X-10 approach would also probably work, but based on my experience with X-10 stuff several years ago, I'm not sure I'd trust it to work 100% of the time. I think the relay approach would be the way I'd go.

Take that all with a big grain of salt, though. I know just enough about line voltage circuits to keep from burning the place down. (Most of the time.)   Wink  I used to do all sorts of non-code wiring back in my traveling band days...only started one fire, and it went out as soon as I ran to the other end of the building and killed the power.   Grin
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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #2 - May 1st, 2011 at 5:50pm
 
Circuit breakers are not designed to be used as on off switches in general use.  Why do they have to be on separate circuits?  There are sensor switches that will turn on one side when it senses power flow on the second side.  I've used one like this one from Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register with routers and lathe.

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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #3 - May 1st, 2011 at 6:35pm
 
or go with a Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register switch for the shop vac.

if you scroll down, WC has lots of other ideas, including Jim's outlet switch.
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« Last Edit: May 1st, 2011 at 6:36pm by David Hamann »  

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Vaughn McMillan
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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #4 - May 1st, 2011 at 7:53pm
 
JimQuarles wrote on May 1st, 2011 at 5:50pm:
Circuit breakers are not designed to be used as on off switches in general use.  Why do they have to be on separate circuits?  There are sensor switches that will turn on one side when it senses power flow on the second side.  I've used one like this one from Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register with routers and lathe.


He wasn't talking about using the breaker as a switch...just talking about putting the two circuits on separate sides of the breaker, so if one trips, the other one does, too. I suspect he needs the two tools on separate circuits to avoid tripping the current 110v breaker. Wink
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« Last Edit: May 1st, 2011 at 7:54pm by Vaughn McMillan »  
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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #5 - May 2nd, 2011 at 6:37am
 
Quote:
I suspect he needs the two tools on separate circuits to avoid tripping the current 110v breaker.


Hmm, I'm REALLY confused now.  MIKE! - Can you clarify?
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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #6 - May 2nd, 2011 at 8:30am
 
Okay, if you really need two tools on two different circuits, the best way to accomplish this is with a 2 pole contactor.  This device will have a control coil which is switched on and off and opens / closes contacts (the circuits you want to control).
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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #7 - May 2nd, 2011 at 4:06pm
 
Vaughn's got it. Two devices max a single circuit, so they each need their own, but I want them on a single switch.

I like the idea of a remote for the vac.
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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #8 - May 2nd, 2011 at 4:28pm
 
This is the Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register what I use for my shop vac.  I have been using it for 2 1/2 years.  It is a lot less than the ones WC sells for DC units that require a higher amperage switch.

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Mike Oyama
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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #9 - May 2nd, 2011 at 6:16pm
 
Can I get two, and set them so that one remote can trigger two switches simultaneously?

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JimQuarles
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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #10 - May 2nd, 2011 at 6:45pm
 
They aren't rated high enough to handle a motor.

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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #11 - May 2nd, 2011 at 7:43pm
 
Can I wire a DPST 220v switch with one circuit on each side? Is it hazardous for some reason?

Basically, Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register, but safer.
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JimQuarles
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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #12 - May 2nd, 2011 at 7:52pm
 
I wouldn't.  I would just operate the vac from the remote.  Besides, I don't run it every time the lathe is running.  Usually just when sanding.  And the lathe isn't running when I am cleaning up.

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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #13 - May 2nd, 2011 at 11:09pm
 
Mike Oyama wrote on May 2nd, 2011 at 7:43pm:
Can I wire a DPST 220v switch with one circuit on each side? Is it hazardous for some reason?

Basically, Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register, but safer.


I believe it would work functionally, but I suspect it'd probably be against all sorts of electrical codes. (Don't know that for certain, though.)

But Jim raises a good point. Do you really want your vac running every time the lathe is on? And vice versa? How about building an auxiliary switch for the vac and mounting it on or near your lathe bench? It could be something like Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register, or for just a few bucks you could put together something made from a wall switch, an outlet, and a duplex box.
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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #14 - May 3rd, 2011 at 1:09am
 
I would suggest a deep, two gang wire mold extension box.  Put 2 spst switches rated at 20 amps each.  A single circuit each.  If it means 220 in the box this is ok.  But please keep it organized for next guy who comes along.  You know...labeling circuits.  Then lathe and vac can easily be controled indepent or togeather.
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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #15 - May 3rd, 2011 at 1:15am
 
If you are thinking of upgrading to a 220 line, why don't you just put in a heavier 110 line connected to a heavier breaker and then you can plug both into it.

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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #16 - May 3rd, 2011 at 8:26am
 
Jim, that's a good idea, however, the problem is switching.  All snap switches are rated no more than 20amps and upgrading the circuit to 30amps to handle both tools means complicated switching.  If it were me, (and I've done this all over my shop) I put two switches side by side - one to turn on the vac and one for the tool.  It's a simple solution.  The other solution is using a remote if you have a dust collection "system" which is on it own circuit.  The contactor solution is a great one for switching more than one circuit.  It's not complicated to wire and contactors with 20amp contacts and 120volt control coils are cheap.
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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #17 - May 3rd, 2011 at 12:56pm
 
Yeah, I like running the vac anytime the lathe is on. Is that odd?
I guess it's really only as complicated as I have to make it, eh?  Grin

Lots of options. I'll have to see which might be cheapest, and safest. I think I like guy's suggestion the best.





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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #18 - May 3rd, 2011 at 10:25pm
 
Lee Valley up here - not sure what the US equivalent is? - had some wireless units you plugged your power tools into that detected current and fired a signal to a unit that turns on/off the dust collector...

I think they were around $40-50 for the transmitters and $60 for the receiver... saw the ad a while back.

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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #19 - May 3rd, 2011 at 10:30pm
 
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

This is a standalone version for a single machine which is cheaper than the other stuff and would let you run 2 circuits.

No need to use switches, when you power on your lathe it powers on the shopvac.
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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #20 - May 4th, 2011 at 10:58am
 
That thing is awesome. I have to test to make sure that my vac will be ok on a 12A breaker though. My lathe is only rated at 6.6A, and together they pop a 20A breaker, so I'm not so sure that would work.

Very awesome, though.
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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #21 - May 4th, 2011 at 11:27am
 
Mike -

On that link you can tab over to the tech details and it has the manual. The unit has 2x 15A breakers (one per circuit) but is rated at 12A running.

Not sure if that would be enough for you? Might want to check their return policy before you order anything...
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Re: Shop electrical question
Reply #22 - May 4th, 2011 at 11:27am
 
That 6.6 amp is running amperage.  Starting amperage is likely 50-75% higher.

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