The Woodturning Forum - Woodturner's Resource - Wanted to Buy -- Lace Bobbin Drive

Ken Vaughan

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Wanted to Buy -- Lace Bobbin Drive
06/06/12 at 20:05:02

I have an order for some small turnings that would fit well with a lace bobbin drive. Have not seen these offered in a catalog since the mid-to-late 90's and should have gotten one then.

If someone has one they want to part with, drop me a PM or E-mail.

I can make one, but the hassle and time factors come into play -- so would rather purchase one.

(If you do not know what one is -- think of a tapered square hole into the end of a MT-2 taper. The deeper into the taper, the smaller the square hole. In practice, the corners on the drive catch the square corners on the blank and turn it. Some were larger - say 3/4 inch square pieces of wood, but most were about 5/8 or a bit smaller.)

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Ron Sardo WR Administrator WR Patron Offline Chief cook and bottle washer Posts: 7783	Re: Wanted to Buy -- Lace Bobbin Drive Reply #1 - 06/07/12 at 05:57:00 They are hard to find in the US. some call them Lace Bobbin Chucks Here is a link in the UK Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or Would a pin chuck work?
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John Lawson WR Supporter Offline Wombats rule! Posts: 1425 Gender:	Re: Wanted to Buy -- Lace Bobbin Drive Reply #2 - 06/07/12 at 07:32:19 I've done the same reasearch as Ron. I remembered that Beall Tools had Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or that might serve that I was intending to get as soon as I needed it, but it has been recently discontinued.
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Ken Vaughan

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Re: Wanted to Buy -- Lace Bobbin Drive
Reply #3 - 06/07/12 at 09:08:37

I am making about 100 Tama for Kumi brading using a design developed by a master braider named Rodrick Owen. I am using surplus pen blanks -- the ones that seem to accumulate because they are not pretty enough. Owen built his out of hardware store dowel -- I am trying to make them more attractive and better functioning. The prototypes have pointed to some improvements. I am anticipating that I will be turning a few hundred more if this is successful. Looking to move to more production turning style than I am currently able to implement.

They are spindle turning.

I have not seen how a pin chuck will work better than I am currently working. I am using steb centers to round the blanks and put a dovetail tenon on one end. Then switch over to O'Donnell jaws and a Nova Live center and finish the bottoms and take the tenon off with a collet chuck holding the shaft.

John -- the Beall "Puck Chuck" was one thought. Those were step milled rather than tapered, and were milled out of a plastic.

Have also thought through a 1 3/4 inch disk with dovetail to mount in a 4 jaw chuck as it would be easy to machine, though it is about max for my micro metal lathe. The tapered hole is easier to finish out that way. The bobbin drive is simple, light and has consistent runout.

Ron - The 30 pound cost plus shipping is probably fair price, but a bit rich without testing other opportunites.

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions!!!

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Cliff De Witt

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Re: Wanted to Buy -- Lace Bobbin Drive
Reply #4 - 06/07/12 at 09:29:30

Ken,

If you do decide to get one from England, let me know.

I might want one too and the shipping cut in half may not be too bad.

My wife's Lace Guild uses a LOT of bobbins. One woman went so far as to commission 12 from a Jeweler in gold with semiprecious stones, she did it to offset her husband's golf trip to the Bahamas. (I have a feeling,as much as she spent, he did other things besides play golf.)

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« Last Edit: 06/07/12 at 09:51:17 by Cliff De Witt »

One of my biggest fears is that my widow will sell all my toys based on what I told her I paid for them.

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Ron Sardo

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Re: Wanted to Buy -- Lace Bobbin Drive
Reply #5 - 06/07/12 at 09:50:58

Ken Vaughan wrote on 06/07/12 at 09:08:37:

I have not seen how a pin chuck will work better than I am currently working.

Not knowing what you were doing I was just guessing, plus I should have said pin jaws.

I use pin jaws to hold pen blanks that I what to turn into finials, centers the blank easily and I don't need to use the tai lstock when it gets in the way.

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Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

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Robert Tewart Active Member Offline God Bless our Armed Forces! Posts: 146 Gender:	Re: Wanted to Buy -- Lace Bobbin Drive Reply #6 - 06/07/12 at 10:42:35 Just out of curiosity, what does a lace bobbin look like. any pics out there.
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John Lawson WR Supporter Offline Wombats rule! Posts: 1425 Gender:	Re: Wanted to Buy -- Lace Bobbin Drive Reply #7 - 06/07/12 at 10:47:58 Robert, look at the link in Ron's post. I might go in on a group buy. I've always wanted one of these, but I was ever sure why. I was going to try making bobbins for a lace-making neighbor of ours, but they moved suddenly to Australia, and it never came to pass.
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Ken Vaughan

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Re: Wanted to Buy -- Lace Bobbin Drive
Reply #8 - 06/07/12 at 15:45:50

Thanks guys --

Robert -- do a google search on "bobbin lace bobbins" or

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

is a sample of the offering available for sale. My daughter was started along the bobbin lace path before life, work, and being a mom got in the way. Many lace weavers have dozens and dozens of bobbins -- and there are many different styles. I am sure John can wax at length at length.

Ron - I tried pin jaws and the collet chuck earlier efforts and it was slow with the long cantilever section. Use of the tail stock allows faster stock removal.

These also have a hole in the end (1/16th inch) to hold a wire "pigtail" that keeps the thread from unwinding, while allowing these to hang vertically. While not as many tama are used as lace bobbins, 2-5 dozen at a time are not uncommon and straight hanging allows the braider to keep the pattern moving smoothly.

John -- I am not yet ready to purchase -- want to try a couple of other things first including molding the tapered square socket from a large socket and some JB Weld. I looked a what I would have to do to machine one on the micro metal lathe and while I can do that -- the time eaten is worse than the price. Have not found anyone locally with a CNC mill -- that would do this is a short run, and I can do the CAD/CAM part.

I think I have several Marudai on my horizon also --

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« Last Edit: 06/07/12 at 15:48:32 by Ken Vaughan »

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Jeff Vanden Boogart WR Supporter Offline WR Rocks! Posts: 360 Gender:	Re: Wanted to Buy -- Lace Bobbin Drive Reply #9 - 06/07/12 at 15:57:07 Ken, I'm thinking about trying to make a Lace Bobbin Drive. What would typically be the size of the square hole on the large and small end, and the depth of the hole?
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Ken Vaughan

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Re: Wanted to Buy -- Lace Bobbin Drive
Reply #10 - 06/07/12 at 16:53:36

Classic ones were about 1/2 inch on the open end --

Necking down to 1/4 inch (more or less) with a 45 degree more or less -

Cut into the end of a morse taper.

My dream is for about 3/4 inch to about 3/8 or 1/4 on about a 45 degree taper.

CNC plan is to drill out the center to remove excess metal (step drilling process) and the to use a mill to create a sloping spiral to near the bottom. Sides will not be perfectly smooth, but should not make a difference, and may help.

The objective is to jam the blank into the hole such that the tail stock is vertical support only - no compression on the blank.

John -- anything I missed??

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John Lawson

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Re: Wanted to Buy -- Lace Bobbin Drive
Reply #11 - 06/07/12 at 20:47:49

I'm no lace bobbin expert, but I think part of the efficacy of the bobbin drive is that the hole is both tapered and square. Then you only need to seat it firmly, without using enough force to crush the corners of a square blank. That said, what you've described seems to be kind of a cup center, another old-fashioned work-holding device. I might just whittle off the corners of the drive end of the blank so there is more contact, but I would expect it to work fine.

Have you considered making tapered wood jaws for your scroll chuck? Get the setting right and there is no need to open or tighten the chuck when turning multiples, and for such small-diameter blanks there wouldn't be a lot of torsional force. Not having access to machine tools, that is the way I would go first.

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Jeff Vanden Boogart WR Supporter Offline WR Rocks! Posts: 360 Gender:	Re: Wanted to Buy -- Lace Bobbin Drive Reply #12 - 06/08/12 at 17:01:28 Ken, I'm guessing 45* included angle? ... 22.5* on each side? I may try to get some EDM'd
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Ken Vaughan

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Re: Wanted to Buy -- Lace Bobbin Drive
Reply #13 - 06/08/12 at 18:37:01

Jeff - saw one in reality several years back so am running on memory and photos.

Change in depth was about the same as the change in opening -- the bottom close to a point and the top was open 1/2 inch -- and the depth was maybe a bit more than 1/2 inch.

22 and a half would be a reasonable approximation that would be easy to program, especially if the top was the more handy 3/4 or so.

Want me to turn on my trig thinking and run the numbers???

I grabbed a socket at the big box store this morning and will make the negative mold tomorrow -- will see what JBWeld will do.
Will lathe file the front end on an MT 2 taper to fit the socket

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Ken Vaughan

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Re: Wanted to Buy -- Lace Bobbin Drive
Reply #14 - 06/08/12 at 18:40:07

John Lawson wrote on 06/07/12 at 20:47:49:

I'm no lace bobbin expert, but I think part of the efficacy of the bobbin drive is that the hole is both tapered and square. Then you only need to seat it firmly, without using enough force to crush the corners of a square blank. That said, what you've described seems to be kind of a cup center, another old-fashioned work-holding device. I might just whittle off the corners of the drive end of the blank so there is more contact, but I would expect it to work fine.

Have you considered making tapered wood jaws for your scroll chuck? Get the setting right and there is no need to open or tighten the chuck when turning multiples, and for such small-diameter blanks there wouldn't be a lot of torsional force. Not having access to machine tools, that is the way I would go first.

Another good thought. I have a hunk of dogwood and I think there is a set of flat jaws for the Talon Chuck in the bucket. Will take a look.

Dogwood is very dense and handles a lot of abuse -- was used to make shuttles and bobbins for the weaving trade in years before plastics and fiber reinforced resins took over that nitche.

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