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Strike two (or maybe ball one) (Read 2,169 times)
 
Jack Hunsucker
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Strike two (or maybe ball one)
Mar 26th, 2013 at 4:14pm
 
This is my second try at segmenting a bowl. Although far from perfect, I learned mountains of information and techniques from the first try. Lack of tools probably makes tons of difference in results, but where there is a will, there is a way!! This was made entirely from waste pieces that I had left around the shop. The two segmented rings are made from Osage Orange boards that I ripped on the band saw from an extra piece I had left from another project. The two bands were cut from a piece of Oak veneer ply. The base is Maple. I used my home made sanding disk on my lathe to even off the disk surfaces, and assembled the disk in quarters as per pervious instructions. Too late, I discovered some unwanted spaces from slightly off square pieces. This is a problem that will soon be solved.
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Jack Hunsucker
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Re: Strike two (or maybe ball one)
Reply #1 - Mar 26th, 2013 at 4:17pm
 
OOps! wrong second picture.
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Chris Neilan
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Re: Strike two (or maybe ball one)
Reply #2 - Mar 26th, 2013 at 4:29pm
 
Getting there!  If you are doing a glue up of rings and they are tight except for the last joint, try (if you have a chop saw) cutting the bad joint and the joint directly across from it and then reglue the ring. It works when I am building a banjo pot.  smiley=thumbsup.gif
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« Last Edit: Mar 26th, 2013 at 4:30pm by Chris Neilan »  

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Robert Harper
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Re: Strike two (or maybe ball one)
Reply #3 - Mar 26th, 2013 at 6:36pm
 
Make sure all of the joints are tight before you glue anything up. What often helps is to only glue one half of the ring in segments. Then sand the joint between the halves so that they fit perfectly. Then I made a drum sander with a sled that I clamp to the lathe bed and a pipe that I have one plug that fits the chuck and the other end with a dimple dead center for the live center on the tail stock. Then I pass the rings under it until they are completely flat all the way around on both sides. Now you're ready to start stacking the rings.

The other thing to do is watch the grain as you put the segments together. It is better to come close to a pattern than look completely random.
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Ron Sardo
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Re: Strike two (or maybe ball one)
Reply #4 - Mar 26th, 2013 at 6:42pm
 
You're getting there, pay attention to your grain direction.
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Re: Strike two (or maybe ball one)
Reply #5 - Mar 26th, 2013 at 6:57pm
 
what are you using to clamp the segments together?  i use thick rubber bands on small rings and hose clamps on larger rings.
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Jim Tankersley
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Re: Strike two (or maybe ball one)
Reply #6 - Mar 26th, 2013 at 7:20pm
 
Jack,
Very nice bowl, your skills are no doubt getting better. I can't wait to see future bowls too. I am also a less experienced segmenter than the pros here but have learned some lessons already.

Do you have a table saw? It plus my table belt sander are really the only power tools I use for these. A sled makes quick work of segments leaving very little sanding needed for tight joints.

Robert has it exactly right, dry fitting is important and making half rings allows you to sand the pair until you can't see light through the joint, then clamp them up with a hose clamp and voila an awesome last joint.

For me, my sled and setup are geared towards 12 segments, I start with pairs to glue, and then the three pairs are glued and set across from it's other side of 3 glued pairs and clamped. I put a 1/4 dowel piece between the two halves to force pressure onto the 6 pairs evenly. Once the glue dries sand your halves to be tighter than light and put back in the clamp. Perfect. Very little sanding is required to get them flat and smooth on one side, I finish flattening the open side on the lathe after the ring is glued to the previous ring.

I'm not sure where I got that technique but I think it was the Malcolm Tibbets book and it works great. He also makes reference to importance of grain direction, and even goes so far as to explain the potential use of using segments all cut from the same side of the board in order to line up grain and color even more. It's wasteful unless you make 2 bowls at the same time.

I like that idea of a drum sander Robert, gosh I wish I had a drum sander...

Anyway good luck Jack, keep making bowls and having fun!
Jim
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Ed Weber
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Re: Strike two (or maybe ball one)
Reply #7 - Mar 26th, 2013 at 8:16pm
 
Definitely getting better.

Jack Hunsucker wrote on Mar 26th, 2013 at 4:14pm:
Lack of tools probably makes tons of difference in results

Yes and no, yes it's nice to have all the right tools but there are many ways to achieve the same end result. If you tell us what tools you're using maybe we could offer some more precise help.

Jim Tankersley wrote on Mar 26th, 2013 at 7:20pm:
He also makes reference to importance of grain direction, and even goes so far as to explain the potential use of using segments all cut from the same side of the board in order to line up grain and color even more. It's wasteful unless you make 2 bowls at the same time.

The technique you are referring to is usually called "grain matching". Whether it is wasteful or not depends on the edge length and thickness of the segment being cut. The waste piece or drop is not always useful.
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Jim Tankersley
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Re: Strike two (or maybe ball one)
Reply #8 - Mar 26th, 2013 at 9:14pm
 
Yep, that's what it's called alright. Oh and heh hmm, well I didn't say that it was wasteful, Mr Tibbets said it was wasteful but sometimes necessary to get the effect...I had thought while reading that part in order for the grain matching technique not to be wasteful to make 2 bowls at the same time, one from segments from one side, and one from the other side in order for both to be grain matched and make all your cuts for 2 rings at once. That book had a big impact on the way I perceive segmented bowl production.

Sorry for the confusion, hope that helped,
Jim


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Ron Sardo
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Re: Strike two (or maybe ball one)
Reply #9 - Mar 26th, 2013 at 9:24pm
 
FWIW, I use a miter saw for staves and a table saw for segments, but I feel either can be used for either type of cut.

If you are using a miter saw you'll need to make a zero-clearance fence and a way to clamp both ends of the wood so nothing moves.

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Jack Hunsucker
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Re: Strike two (or maybe ball one)
Reply #10 - Mar 26th, 2013 at 10:04pm
 
List of tools used:
Band saw
Miter saw
10" disk sander on lathe
band clamp
miter gauge for accuracy
Make sections in quarters and true to 90*
Check and or retrue half sections
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Walt
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Re: Strike two (or maybe ball one)
Reply #11 - Mar 26th, 2013 at 10:29pm
 
Jack, you certainly get an A for effort.  There are several ways to cut, glue and turn segmented bowls.  Knowing what tools you have will greatly improve our ability to improve your process.  I know you have a band saw.  Do you have a stationary disc or belt sander?  If not, your lathe could double as one with a shop made jig.  Jigs are our friends!   As already stated, Malcolm Tibbets has videos.  His #1 video and his book are very informative.  You can only purchase them from his site.  some libraries have them also.  Just keep in mind that there are many ways to skin a cat.
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Re: Strike two (or maybe ball one)
Reply #12 - Mar 26th, 2013 at 10:33pm
 
Looking good Jack. Ditto what Walt said about what tools you are using would help us. I also have Malcom's book.
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« Last Edit: Mar 26th, 2013 at 10:33pm by Bernie Weishapl »  

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Walt
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Re: Strike two (or maybe ball one)
Reply #13 - Mar 27th, 2013 at 11:11am
 
Jack, here is a article that shows a platform for a lathe  mounted disc sander.  What I like about this one is the table is adjustable.  To me how you cut the segments is not critical.  It removing the saw marks and having a prefect joint for glueing.

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Ron showed you earlier a sled for your miter saw.  You can even use your band saw.  I looked in TPT section and found a couple articles on segmenting.  I think I can improve that by writing some articles on sleds and such.  Here is the link for the TPT section.    Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

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« Last Edit: Mar 27th, 2013 at 11:13am by Walt »  
 
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Re: Strike two (or maybe ball one)
Reply #14 - Mar 27th, 2013 at 1:07pm
 
Thanks for the list of tools.
Whether you use a bandsaw or miter saw, you should have some type of jig or fixture for repeatability and as Ron mentioned, a zero-clearance fence and insert. Most, if not all miter saws come with a worthless insert. As you can see in the picture I made my own and it has improved the cut quality greatly. The fence is no more than a couple pieces of plywood that meet at the blade. A ZC fence and insert provide backing for the wood fibers so you don't get blowout or splintering, this also results in less sanding, which is always a good thing.
As it happens, Ron and I have the same saw. If you look at Ron's photo, you can see the stock plastic insert.
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