Woodturner's Resource
Woodturner's Resource  
  • Featured Artist    • Websites   Support Wr
Tutorials, Projects & Tips   • Event Calendar   • Tool and Book Store
  Home Page Forum HelpSearch Map TPT Resources LoginRegister
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print
Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue! (Read 2,450 times)
 
Wilson Revelle
Full Member
**
Offline


My Amygdala Are Always
Playing With My Emotions.

Posts: 74

Metairie, Louisiana, USA
Metairie
Louisiana
USA

Gender: male
Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Sep 2nd, 2013 at 9:41pm
 
Ok... yea... this question is about... Sawdust... err.. Glue! Smiley

I am having to do some flat work and I have to glue 3/4 boards together on sides but need to cut something out of the glued boards..

The questions I have are these:

1. I have SEVERAL types of glue. (CA, Maxim Blue (Picture frame / Wood Glue, actually love this stuff when making  frames),  Gorilla (Wood & the Brown stuff) and heck.. even regular Elmers.   Can I use ANY of this for glueing these boards together as well as for segmented turning?

2. To Dowel or not to Dowel... That is the question.  I usually glue a couple of dowels in the center of each flat board just to add the "Stable" to the boards I am going to be cutting on the bandsaw.   Should I trust the glue or should I continue to dowel the boards. 

Thanks agian Smiley
Back to top
  

If at first you cant make the right gift... Buy another tool.
 
IP Logged
 
Register To Remove Ads
Walt
WR Patron
******
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 1,988

Hanford, California, USA
Hanford
California
USA

Gender: male

PM 3520A
Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #1 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 10:19pm
 
1.  Yes. I'd stay away from the CA.  Elmer's is just as strong as Titebond.

2.  Dowels or biscuits will always add strength.  Not knowing what you are cutting off so place them strategically so you don't cut into them.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
David Hamann
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline


papadave

Posts: 5,598

Pasco WA, Washington, USA
Pasco WA
Washington
USA

Gender: male

Jet 1014VSI
Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #2 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 10:27pm
 
what Walt said.  i like titebond II my self.
Back to top
  

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind.” - Ted Geisel

Be yourself, after all, everyone else is taken.
 
IP Logged
 
JimQuarles
WR Addict
WR Patron
*****
Offline


WR Rocks, BIG Time!

Posts: 13,194

Glendale, AZ, Arizona, USA
Glendale, AZ
Arizona
USA

Gender: male
Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #3 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 11:20pm
 
David Hamann wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 10:27pm:
What Walt said.  I like Titebond II myself.


+1
Back to top
  

Mentor Basics, Pens, small stuff, Acrylics, EasyRougher.
Just Turnin' Around!  Glendale, AZ  Cool Cool

"Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time.
I think I've forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 
IP Logged
 
Len Layman
WR Patron
******
Offline


What have I got into??

Posts: 2,994

Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands
Grand Cayman
Cayman Islands

Gender: male

PM 3520b
Jet 1220
Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #4 - Sep 3rd, 2013 at 8:23am
 
I would caution when you say "regular Elmers" do you mean Elmers school glue or carpenters glue?  I thought school glue was the regular until I started wood working.  Smiley
Back to top
  

Len

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."   MLK
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Ron Sardo
WR Administrator
WR Patron
*****
Offline


Chief cook and bottle
washer

Posts: 9,263

Drums, Pennsylvania, USA
Drums
Pennsylvania
USA


PM 3520
Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #5 - Sep 3rd, 2013 at 9:16am
 
Len Layman wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 8:23am:
Elmers school glue or carpenters glue

Carpenter's glue is formulated from Elmer's glue. Just a little color added and it dries a little faster.

Wilson Revelle wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 9:41pm:
I have to glue 3/4 boards together on sides

Make sure you joint the edges to get two evenly matching surfaces.

Walt wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 10:19pm:
Yes. I'd stay away from the CA

Ditto

Wilson Revelle wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 9:41pm:
To Dowel or not to Dowel

While biscuits (or dowels) do add some strength, I use them more to help me with alignment.

If two boards are glued up properly the glue line is the stronger than the wood itself. Any failure is more likely to happen away from the glue line
Back to top
« Last Edit: Sep 3rd, 2013 at 9:18am by Ron Sardo »  

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Len Layman
WR Patron
******
Offline


What have I got into??

Posts: 2,994

Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands
Grand Cayman
Cayman Islands

Gender: male

PM 3520b
Jet 1220
Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #6 - Sep 3rd, 2013 at 10:27am
 
Ron Sardo wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 9:16am:
Carpenter's glue is formulated from Elmer's glue. Just a little color added and it dries a little faster.


Although similar in formulation there are differences.  School glue has more water making it thinner.  It dries white and will not sand as well and in certain application may not have the same strength.   Kind of like Ca glue  comes in different thicknesses and even a "flexible"  although basically the same  some work better than others in different application.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Sep 3rd, 2013 at 10:38am by Len Layman »  

Len

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."   MLK
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Peter Elliott
WR Supporter
*****
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 19

Frederick, Maryland, USA
Frederick
Maryland
USA

Gender: male
Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #7 - Sep 3rd, 2013 at 4:08pm
 
Titebond II for your glue.  Make sure you have enough clamps and clamp it tight.

Out of your list, I wouldn't use any.  Unless you are using exotic oily wood.

Make sure you have a good board to board joint.

You need to tell us more about the glue up if dowels,etc are needed.  It is doubtful they well add any strength but will help with alignment and not allow the boards to drift while clamping.  With that said, I skip this 99% of the time.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
David Hamann
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline


papadave

Posts: 5,598

Pasco WA, Washington, USA
Pasco WA
Washington
USA

Gender: male

Jet 1014VSI
Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #8 - Sep 3rd, 2013 at 7:20pm
 
Peter Elliott wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 4:08pm:
Make sure you have enough clamps and clamp it tight.


but not too tight, or you will squeeze all the glue out and have a dry joint. DAMHIKT
Back to top
  

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind.” - Ted Geisel

Be yourself, after all, everyone else is taken.
 
IP Logged
 
Wilson Revelle
Full Member
**
Offline


My Amygdala Are Always
Playing With My Emotions.

Posts: 74

Metairie, Louisiana, USA
Metairie
Louisiana
USA

Gender: male
Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #9 - Sep 4th, 2013 at 7:34pm
 
The glue is the Elmers White School glue...actually kinda joking about that glue. Smiley

Thanks for all the responces!!!  So much to learn still.  Adding pictures of what I am up too and maybe it will help.

The wood is Fur and the carve out stuff is Balsa.  More worried about the fur wood in the joints. 

The second pic is the glues I have... can Elmers Carpenter Glue go bad?

Third is the framing glue... I love this glue... can be sanded, dries clear, and as you can see the set time is FAST not to mention that I get a HUGE discount being I own a frame shop. 

Ill check into that Tightbond II glue to see if I can get it from my supplier.  Got to save the $$ where I can  Cheesy

And my tip of the day is.... Shop towels make VERY bad nose tissue.
Back to top
  

If at first you cant make the right gift... Buy another tool.
 
IP Logged
 
JimQuarles
WR Addict
WR Patron
*****
Offline


WR Rocks, BIG Time!

Posts: 13,194

Glendale, AZ, Arizona, USA
Glendale, AZ
Arizona
USA

Gender: male
Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #10 - Sep 4th, 2013 at 9:36pm
 
Tightbond will usually be good for several years if you keep it closed up between uses.  Gorilla Glue has a shelf life of about 1 year if you don't ever open it at all.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Sep 4th, 2013 at 9:36pm by JimQuarles »  

Mentor Basics, Pens, small stuff, Acrylics, EasyRougher.
Just Turnin' Around!  Glendale, AZ  Cool Cool

"Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time.
I think I've forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 
IP Logged
 
Register To Remove Ads
Wilson Revelle
Full Member
**
Offline


My Amygdala Are Always
Playing With My Emotions.

Posts: 74

Metairie, Louisiana, USA
Metairie
Louisiana
USA

Gender: male
Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #11 - Sep 4th, 2013 at 10:01pm
 
The Elmer's looks like its separated.  That's why I ask.
Back to top
  

If at first you cant make the right gift... Buy another tool.
 
IP Logged
 
JimQuarles
WR Addict
WR Patron
*****
Offline


WR Rocks, BIG Time!

Posts: 13,194

Glendale, AZ, Arizona, USA
Glendale, AZ
Arizona
USA

Gender: male
Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #12 - Sep 4th, 2013 at 10:09pm
 
Wilson Revelle wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 10:01pm:
The Elmer's looks like its separated.

So will the joint then.
Back to top
  

Mentor Basics, Pens, small stuff, Acrylics, EasyRougher.
Just Turnin' Around!  Glendale, AZ  Cool Cool

"Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time.
I think I've forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 
IP Logged
 
Wilson Revelle
Full Member
**
Offline


My Amygdala Are Always
Playing With My Emotions.

Posts: 74

Metairie, Louisiana, USA
Metairie
Louisiana
USA

Gender: male
Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #13 - Sep 4th, 2013 at 10:41pm
 
i am going to assume that you are actually saying... Throw that crap away Smiley   So I will LOL!!!
Back to top
  

If at first you cant make the right gift... Buy another tool.
 
IP Logged
 
steve rost
WR Devotee
*****
Offline


Jigaholic

Posts: 436

Mansfield, Texas, USA
Mansfield
Texas
USA

Gender: male
Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #14 - Sep 5th, 2013 at 6:48pm
 
In my experience I agree with len. Elmers school glue seemed too thin when I tried it with segmented work.  I found the regular white Elmers glue and have been happy for years.  Also don't forget when filling small cracks with sawdust try Elmers.  It has a longer open time and has less staining of the wood!
Back to top
  

One measure of a great craftsman is how well he can hide his mistakes!
 
IP Logged
 
Charlie Zapalac
WR Addict
*****
Offline


The Cross Guy

Posts: 588

Carlos, Tx, Texas, USA
Carlos, Tx
Texas
USA

Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #15 - Dec 3rd, 2013 at 11:01pm
 
"It is doubtful they well add any strength"

They will add strength by increasing the glue area.  That's one reason to use different joints besides simple butt joints.  Lap joints and other type joints greatly increase the gluing area.  As said, if glued correctly, the glue joint will be exponentially stronger than the wood.  Nails are only needed to hold things till the glue dries, so if you properly glue something, then shoot it full of nails like a machine gun, your just making the nail companies rich.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 4,691

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #16 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 10:18am
 
Just buy a new bottle of Titebond and be done with it.  Grin
As far as biscuits or dowels go, from your example, you don't need them.
When gluing long-grain to long-grain parallel, you don't need any mechanical assistance. If the boards get too long, if they have a bow/twist or are just difficult to join, then it's best to use biscuits or dowels for alignment.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Jerry Aldini
WR Noob
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 21

Lancaster, Massachusetts, USA
Lancaster
Massachusetts
USA

Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #17 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 3:48pm
 
I would go with Titebond II or III depending on the color of wood.  III is darker, good for walnut and it also has a longer setup time. It is also completely waterproof.

Dowels or biscuits only for alignment if necessary, they add no strength to the joint and their impression can sometimes telecast through. 

Gorilla glue is one of the weakest glues out there and is messy to work with.  It stains your fingers and can not be washed off.  The staining remains on your fingers for several days. Wear latex gloves.  FWW did a review on glue strengths a few years back and polyurethane glues were the weakest  IIRC.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 4,691

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #18 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 5:04pm
 
Jerry Aldini wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 3:48pm:
Dowels or biscuits only for alignment if necessary, they add no strength to the joint

Lets try to keep our facts straight.
Adding to what Charlie Z. said.
A dowel is nothing more than a round floating tenon.
A biscuit is no more than a football shaped floating tenon.
A floating tenon has a few purposes which are
1.STRENGTH, a biscuit or dowel will add strength to an otherwise weak butt joint. Adding one of these devices gives you a mechanical advantage beyond the glue alone, just like a nail or screw.
2. Alignment, Dowels and biscuits are nothing more than a mechanical fastener for aligning and constructing furniture and other wood works. See above
3. Glue Area. It’s true that adding a Biscuit or dowel will add an extra amount of gluing area and thereby making the joint stronger, although his amount of area gained is minimal.
If you want a stronger connection, start out with a stronger joint that gives you a mechanical advantage while also increasing the glue area.
.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Jerry Aldini
WR Noob
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 21

Lancaster, Massachusetts, USA
Lancaster
Massachusetts
USA

Re: Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue, Glue..... Glue Glue!
Reply #19 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 10:35pm
 
Ed,  I worked in a furniture shop, Furniture by Dovetail.  We had this same discussion in the shop over which was stronger....so we did a stress test on 2 panels, 1 that was glued up with biscuits, the other which was just properly jointed and glued.  Same glue, no biscuits.  The panel without the biscuits held out much longer and when it finally broke, the wood broke completely clear of the glue joint.  The one with the biscuits split right down the glue line.  It doesn't stand to reason, one would assume with dowels or biscuits,  there's more glue surface so it should be stronger but it's not true.  I'm a believer. 
Biscuits and loose tenons have their purpose though.  I own a Festool Domino and love it.  I use them when joining perpendicular boards in a carcass where end grain is involved.  But I never use them when edge joining boards for a panel glue up.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print