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Sharpening with Doug Thompson (Read 1,539 times)
robo_hippy
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Sharpening with Doug Thompson
Feb 27th, 2014 at 12:52am
 
I found this today and think it is very good.

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robo hippy
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2014 at 5:39pm by Bob Hamilton »  
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Ed Weber
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Re: Sharpening with Doug Thompson
Reply #1 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 10:29am
 
Thanks Reed
Overall I like the video and possibly learned a thing or two. I have to say I was a bit confused by a comment he made at the beginning (approx 9:28) where he said to use the Vari-grind NOT the Vari-grind 2 because you lose versatility.. I have both of these tools and have not come across any limitations in versatility. All the VG2 does differently is retrain unwanted/unnecessary side to side movement therefore I don't understand the statement. I may have to post a question in the comments.
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robo_hippy
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Re: Sharpening with Doug Thompson
Reply #2 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 11:24am
 
Since I am a platform sharpener, and don't use jigs, I can't really comment. I have heard a lot of people say that they prefer the VG 1, and not the 2.

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Ed Weber
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Re: Sharpening with Doug Thompson
Reply #3 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 11:38am
 
robo_hippy wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 11:24am:
I have heard a lot of people say that they prefer the VG 1, and not the 2.


I have heard that as well and thought it was due to the VG2 always being in the center of the wheel. If you're using a composite wheel, after repeated use it will dish out the face, I use a CBN so I don't have that problem.
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Steve Rollinson
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Re: Sharpening with Doug Thompson
Reply #4 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 6:03pm
 
I imagine the geometry of the VG2 gets confusing. The VG1 is simpler.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Sharpening with Doug Thompson
Reply #5 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 6:53pm
 
Steve Rollinson wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 6:03pm:
I imagine the geometry of the VG2 gets confusing. The VG1 is simpler.


The geometry is no different, it's essentially the exact same tool. All the angles, measurements and movements are the same. Basically just a fancy tool gate to keep you from falling off the side of the wheel. I haven't found anything I could do on my original VG that I can't do on the VG2.
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robo_hippy
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Re: Sharpening with Doug Thompson
Reply #6 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 7:15pm
 
I never have fallen off the edge of my 1 1/2 inch wide wheels. Did it way too often with my older 1 inch wide wheels.

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Re: Sharpening with Doug Thompson
Reply #7 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 7:36pm
 
I like the Robo rest!
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Ed Weber
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Re: Sharpening with Doug Thompson
Reply #8 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 8:14pm
 
robo_hippy wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 7:15pm:
I never have fallen off the edge of my 1 1/2 inch wide wheels. Did it way too often with my older 1 inch wide wheels.

BTDT
Just part of the reason I went to the CBN,
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Re: Sharpening with Doug Thompson
Reply #9 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 11:53pm
 
the metallurgy was mostly good but being a knife maker some of the terms were misplaced.  mostly with carbides vs RA and cryo
long video but i learn something every day today was no different.  thanks for the link
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Bob Hamilton
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Re: Sharpening with Doug Thompson
Reply #10 - Feb 28th, 2014 at 5:48pm
 
Very good presentation but it drives me up the wall when someone uses that comparison between the grinder burr on a scraper and the burnished hook on a cabinetmaker's card scraper.  The two things are completely different.  If you grind your scraper to shape, hone it to a very sharp edge (completely removing the grinder burr) and then burnish that sharp edge so it faces up, then you can make the comparison.  Otherwise there is no similarity whatsoever.

Take care
Bob
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Re: Sharpening with Doug Thompson
Reply #11 - Feb 28th, 2014 at 6:17pm
 
Bob Hamilton wrote on Feb 28th, 2014 at 5:48pm:
it drives me up the wall when someone uses that comparison between the grinder burr on a scraper and the burnished hook on a cabinetmaker's card scraper.


As someone who uses cabinet scrapers (years before I took up turning) I know exactly what you mean.
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robo_hippy
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Re: Sharpening with Doug Thompson
Reply #12 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 1:57pm
 
There are burrs, and there are burrs. I guess several types.

One is more of a 'wire' burr. These are raised from grinding more with the standard wheels. Very weak, and tend to break off with even minimal use. They are weaker of you sharpen upside down.

Another is the CBN wheel burr. I have no idea why, but this burr is very strong, and I use it on my scrapers for roughing out bowls. It is not as refined as a burnished burr, so the cut is a little bit more coarse than one that is burnished, but is fine for about 95% of what I do. I always hone off the old burr before grinding a new one on it.

There is a honed burr. These are done after grinding. You hone the top of the scraper, then the face, and some times go back and forth a time or two to remove the grinder burr. Then, you hone the face of the bevel. This raises a very slight burr in the scraper. Better for finish shear cut/scrapes, but not so good for heavy roughing. A coarser hone (220) will raise a more sturdy burr, a fine hone will raise a more delicate burr. Personally, I consider it very similar to a CBN wheel burr, but not as strong. It is almost a burnished burr, but your burnishing tool in this case is coarse compared to the rod/burnishing tools.

Then there is the burnished burr. You grind and hone like above. I use a triangle burnishing tool for card scrapers. It takes very little effort to raise a burr even on the V 10 tools like Doug makes. For some reason the round burnishers don't do as good of a job. If your bevel angle is 70 degrees, then you want the burnisher at 75 degrees. I think this is pretty close to what the Veritas burnishing tool that you screw down to your bench top does. The problem with that (I don't have one, and haven't used one) is that turners seem to really bear down on it to turn a really heavy burr on it. You can over burnish it to the point where the burr resembles a wave that has broken and the burr is turned too far over to be good at cutting. The burnished burr is a finer edge than the grinder or honed burrs. Thing to me is that they generally are not worth the extra effort to make, and I only use them for an exceptionally difficult piece of wood. They do work better on hard dense woods, not on soft stringy woods.

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Bob Hamilton
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Re: Sharpening with Doug Thompson
Reply #13 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 4:47pm
 
I do have the Veritas burnisher but I found that it made the scrapers WAY too aggressive and "grabby".  It is likely that I was guilty of turning too heavy a burr by bearing down too hard on it.  I only tried it a couple of times and it has lived in a drawer ever since.

Actually, for the kinds of things I use a scraper for I prefer no burr at all.  I noticed a long time ago that using a skew chisel as a scraper left a very nice surface on the wood, so now I grind the scrapers and then hone them on my MDF honing wheel on both the top surface and the bevel so they have a very sharp edge with no burr.  They take wispy shavings and leave a very clean surface.

Take care
Bob
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steve rost
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Re: Sharpening with Doug Thompson
Reply #14 - Mar 2nd, 2014 at 6:49pm
 
On the subject of burrs on a card scraper my experience was the learning curve of pressing too hard to obtain a burr.  I finally discovered I was not returning my scraper to a perfect flat edge 90 degrees to the sides.  A lighter touch with the burnisher gave me a nice 'wire' edge.
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