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Alternative to CA finish... (Read 3,174 times)
 
Kenn Harris
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Alternative to CA finish...
May 8th, 2014 at 8:09pm
 
I'ved CA as a finish on pens and small turnings but not thrilled with the results nor the terrible odor, etc...  I'd like to hear from other turners of pens and other turnings to hear what they use for finishes...  I'm looking for a gloss/semi-gloss finish that is durable enough for numerous handlings (not a dust catcher...) yet is easy to apply and quick to dry... I've ordered General Finishes WoodTurners Finish to try but wonder if other finishes out there are available that do the same or better result...
Huh
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JimQuarles
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Re: Alternative to CA finish...
Reply #1 - May 8th, 2014 at 8:30pm
 
I use either Doctor's Workshop High-Build Friction polish or Myland's Friction polish over Myland's sanding Sealer.
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Louie Powell
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Re: Alternative to CA finish...
Reply #2 - May 8th, 2014 at 9:00pm
 
Most of the pens I've made recently have been finished with a shop-made lacquer-based friction polish - equal parts of lacquer, lacquer thinner, and BLO.  It's not super glossy - more of a soft glow - and unlike CA, you know by feel that the pen is made of wood.  It goes on very quickly, and will build to a thicker finish if that's what you want.  I apply it at low speed with toilet paper, and then turn the lathe up to its max speed to buff.

I recently did a careful experiment using water-based polyurethane (floor finish) on a pen just to see how it would work.  I was concerned about the tendency of water-based poly to have a bluish cast, so I used a shellac sanding sealer first to enhance the amber color of the wood.  I applied four heavy coats of the poly using a brush - but with the lathe rotating at its lowest speed.  I left the lathe running for about an hour after applying the finish so that the rotation and vibration would cause the finish to 'self-level'.  I let each coat cure for 6-8 hours before wet-sanding very lightly and then applied the next coat.  After the final coat had cured for a couple of days, I used the higher grades of micromesh to wet-polish the pen, and then buffed it with Meguiar's plastic polish.  The finished product is just as glossy as CA.  I have another pen (one of my 'daily carry' pens) that was done with water-based poly and looks no different now than it did when I made it three years ago, so I'm confident that it will withstand daily use. But it is 'plasticky' and the process takes a lot of time.

I use my shop-made lacquer-based friction polish for turnings other than pens, but another finish that I like for purely decorative items (dust catchers) is a shellac and wax finish.  I have two versions, one made from equal parts of shellac, DNA, and Howard's Feed and Wax, and the other made from equal parts of paste wax, DNA and shellac.  The former is similar in appearance to Shellawax cream, while the latter is like Shellawax paste.  Both produce a fairly glossy finish, but one that is not as tough as the lacquer friction polish.  Either is as simple and quick to apply as the lacquer-based friction polish.
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« Last Edit: May 8th, 2014 at 9:01pm by Louie Powell »  

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John Normoyle
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Re: Alternative to CA finish...
Reply #3 - May 8th, 2014 at 11:51pm
 
Louie, a question if you will.  Why do you add the BLO (I wonder about this with all finishes that use it).  Is it initially to "pop" the grain?  After the first one or two do you see an improvement?  If it is to help the lacquer sink into the grain, after the first or second coat isn't the grain filled?  If it is as a lubricant wouldn't the lacquer thinner work just as well or better?  I could be completely off and not even know it, if so my deepest apologies, however  I am new to this and any tips ya'll can give me is much appreciated.
Thanks for any advice or knowledge.
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Louie Powell
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Re: Alternative to CA finish...
Reply #4 - May 9th, 2014 at 6:13am
 
John

I don't know exactly what the BLO does, but the recipe that I found for friction polish called for it, and I like the way the final product works.  I make it ahead, so I can't adjust the formula between applications.

I have used a commercial lacquer-based friction polish (the WoodWrite product sold by PSI as their house brand) that also works very well.  The MSDS for that product suggests that it does not contain BLO.  My only issue with it is that it is more expensive.  My sense is that the commercial product produces slightly more gloss.
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Ralph Fahringer
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Re: Alternative to CA finish...
Reply #5 - May 9th, 2014 at 12:03pm
 
Being the noob that I am, I have to ask...

What does BLO stand for?

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John Normoyle
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Re: Alternative to CA finish...
Reply #6 - May 9th, 2014 at 12:19pm
 
BLO = Boiled Linseed Oil.
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Walt Nollan
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Re: Alternative to CA finish...
Reply #7 - May 9th, 2014 at 3:02pm
 
Im not a chemist but I think the BLO is a wetting agent and the lacquer is for the hard exterior film, or the gloss.
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Ralph Fahringer
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Re: Alternative to CA finish...
Reply #8 - May 9th, 2014 at 3:45pm
 
John Normoyle wrote on May 9th, 2014 at 12:19pm:
BLO = Boiled Linseed Oil.



Well... DUH!! (smacks forehead!) Roll Eyes
Thanks!
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JimQuarles
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Re: Alternative to CA finish...
Reply #9 - May 9th, 2014 at 4:55pm
 
Ralph Fahringer wrote on May 9th, 2014 at 3:45pm:
(smacks forehead!)

Just don't hurt your hand on your forehead.  Grin Grin
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Jeff Jackson
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Re: Alternative to CA finish...
Reply #10 - May 10th, 2014 at 9:35am
 
I've been using the same lacquer formulation but use Walnut oil. Any one of the three drying oils (blo, tung, walnut) will work. I've been very happy with it so far.
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Kenn Harris
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Re: Alternative to CA finish...
Reply #11 - May 10th, 2014 at 8:35pm
 
Thanks Jim...but I've 'heard' that Mylands or other 'friction polishes' dull after a while with constant use/handling...  I've used Mylands and very pleased with it for 'dust catchers' and that's one reason I'm going to try General Fishish's Wood Turners Polish...  It Sounds similar to what Louie mentioned as it was initially developed as a water based poly floor polish.  Sounds as if I'm not the only one who's not too happy with CA... Huh
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Re: Alternative to CA finish...
Reply #12 - May 11th, 2014 at 7:30pm
 
Wouldn't any finish with wax tend to get dull from repeated handling?

After good sanding to 400 grit, I'm getting around a semi gloss sheen with six coats of shop mixed wiping varnish.  I mix equal parts mineral spirits or naptha and a good quality GLOSS alkyd varnish (I use P&L 38).  Both thinners work, the naptha evaporates faster.

for the first coat, I rag on a wet coat several times over three or four mintes, then before it gets sticky I scrub off as much as possible with a clean paper towel.  I know, scrubbing dry is not usually done with wiping varnish, but it prevents smudges and such as I'm handling the bowl (and I coating inside and outside at the same time).  Allowing at least a couple hours drying time, I wipe on and scrub off two more coats the first day and three the second.  After each coat I place the bowl on a nail board, or small items on a piece of fiberglas window screen on a nail board.

I mix and dispense the wiping varnish from a plastic squeeze bottle, topping it off after each use with a bit of Bloxygen to prevent gelling in the bottle.

If desirable some BLO can be used in the first coat to warm up the wood.  I have a separate squeeze bottle with this danish oil mix (1 part BLO, 4 parts thinner and 4 parts alkyd varnish).  Or you could squirt a bit of the wiping varnish on a flat surface, add a portion of BLO and mix well, and rag on that mix for the first coat.
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Re: Alternative to CA finish...
Reply #13 - May 13th, 2014 at 7:44pm
 
Ralph Fahringer wrote on May 9th, 2014 at 12:03pm:
Being the noob that I am, I have to ask...

What does BLO stand for?



Well, I am newer than this  Smiley

Kenn Harris wrote on May 10th, 2014 at 8:35pm:
Thanks Jim...but I've 'heard' that Mylands or other 'friction polishes' dull after a while with constant use/handling...  I've used Mylands and very pleased with it for 'dust catchers' and that's one reason I'm going to try General Fishish's Wood Turners Polish...  It Sounds similar to what Louie mentioned as it was initially developed as a water based poly floor polish.  Sounds as if I'm not the only one who's not too happy with CA... Huh



In my very brief turning experience, I have recently been using Danish Oil for 3-5 coats, and then used Mylands Friction Polish. So if I read this right, I just ruined my Danish oil finish as it's going to dull more quickly? What I make, razor handles, brush handles, pens, are used all the time, and within a week seem dull already.
My finishes will need to stand up to water, but I don't have the patience for several hours of drying time.
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Re: Alternative to CA finish...
Reply #14 - May 13th, 2014 at 8:01pm
 
Mike:

If you have the patience to apply danish oil, you have the necessary patience to apply a wiping varnish exactly the same way.  The blo component makes danish oil a softer finish than just wiping varnish.  Use a gloss varnish in your wiping varnish for the greatest sheen.
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