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Shop electrical help (Read 3,111 times)
 
Shane Durham
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Shop electrical help
Oct 31st, 2014 at 2:23pm
 
So, I'm doing all my own electrical for my shop.  I have quite a bit of experience with 110v but next to none for 220v.  The panel I got is for 125A and is a 6/12.  I set it up to have 3 220v circuits and 6 110v.  The questions I have pertains to the wire and outlets for the 220v.  It appears that there is 2 different wire types a 3 wire (Black, white, ground) and a 4 wire (black, red, white, and ground along with outlets designed for 3 or four wire.  So what do I use?  I know I'm going to run 10 gage wire but I'm just not sure if I need 3 or 4 wire and the corresponding 3 or 4 wire plug.

Thanks for any help,

Shane
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Bert Delisle
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Re: Shop electrical help
Reply #1 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 3:04pm
 
You could look up "three wire edison" as this is the wiring used for domestic use in Norht America. 110/220 single phase. On a safety note, take the time to do it correctly, most domestic electrical projects benefit from having to pull a permit as the inspection component helps keep the home/shop safe. JMHO.
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Donald Jordan
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Re: Shop electrical help
Reply #2 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 3:52pm
 
Shane,

I am not a professional electrician. You should use a professional. There I said it.
Typically the residential 220v circuit is a 3 wire circuit... (2) hots or phases and a ground. It is common practice with a cable colored Black, white, and green, to mark the white as a hot wire with tape or markers for safety reasons.
here is a link to several diagrams for your review. If you scroll down you will see a panel wired with all three types of cable you mentioned.
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
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Ralph Fahringer
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Re: Shop electrical help
Reply #3 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 3:57pm
 
Personally, I'd rather just get an electrician come in and run the wiring. It is so second nature to them.

All I'm going to do is run conduit along the ceiling and have junction boxes where ever I want  to drop down to an outlet and run the conduit down to where I want  the outlet.

I will let him run  the wiring and set the outlets.

I really enjoy not electrocuting  myself. Smiley
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Buck Nemitt
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Re: Shop electrical help
Reply #4 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 4:48pm
 
The only input I can add is that the original post reminded me of in the mid 1980's I had a mobile home and the 220 for the dryer was a 4 wire pigtail. Getting a residential sparky would be wise in the long run.
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JimQuarles
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Re: Shop electrical help
Reply #5 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 7:59pm
 
Check with your local building inspector.  Many municipalities require a licensed electrician to make major modifications to residential property.  Also, if you do it your self, you may end up voiding your homeowner's insurance.  My insurance company required a permit and licensed electrician.  Some electricians will come advise you on the conduit and wiring and let you put that part in and then come back to make the connections and sign off on the work.  That's what mine did and the fees were lower.  I also needed to get a permit from the local building inspector.  One may be required for the wall modifications.
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Ken Vaughan
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Re: Shop electrical help
Reply #6 - Nov 1st, 2014 at 12:46am
 

Current NEC is 4 wire -- 2 hot, neutral, and ground.   

Still need the ground wire -- even with conduit.

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Richard Leppert
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Re: Shop electrical help
Reply #7 - Nov 1st, 2014 at 10:00am
 
Shane, You need 4 wire for the 220v. Black 110v red 110v different phases and white for neutral. Neutral used for any 110v eq. Light bulb etc. ground for grounding equipment.  My main concern is , how are you connecting your sub panel? If you are coming off the main panel lugs hire ELECTRICAN.
If your coming off new breaker in main panel do you have the space for new breaker? You also need to add cable from old panel to sub panel.  # 10 wire for the 220v seems over kill. If you hang the drywall first, paint, then run conduit on the surface it will be easier to access later. Electric inspection will cover you if something happens in the future you will be covered.  Hire Electrican, it may be cheaper in the long run. you will be glad you installed the 36" door.

   Richard

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Rob Grindler
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Re: Shop electrical help
Reply #8 - Nov 1st, 2014 at 12:52pm
 
I would suggest talking to an electrical inspector in your area, and taking out a permit .I wired my own shop and changed the wring to come from the street to the shop ,then to the house,with new mast and panel boxes.In my area you are allowed to do wiring on your own home with a permit.So I first talked to the inspector and found out what I was allowed to do and what not to do,got the permit and then it was all inspected and done right and is safe according to code,and no issues with my insurance.Different areas do have some differences in rules and codes so best to check first in your area.
I saved thousands of dollars I didn't have at the time ,so it was worth it ,to do it myself and I learned a lot from doing it,so good luck.
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James Saxinger
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Re: Shop electrical help
Reply #9 - Nov 1st, 2014 at 10:02pm
 
Shane, what amperage or size of breaker are you running your 220v circuits at ?? That will dictate what wire size is needed. #10 wire is good for 30A and would be a bit of overkill and can be a bit of a pain to terminate onto the receptacle(s), if your breaker(s) are 20A,  #12 wire will take care of it unless you are planning changing to 30A later. I ran my 220v circuits in #12 (good for up to 20A). Code (NEC) says max circuit loading of 80% or 16A for a 20A circuit (breaker). For 220v cct's, all that is needed is 2 current carrying conductors and a ground, red/black or white/black should be all that is needed and a ground. Pulling in #10 though is up to you. But as said previously,  check and see if you can pull a homeowners permit and  talk to an electrician or inspector.
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Gordon McEwan
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Re: Shop electrical help
Reply #10 - Dec 2nd, 2014 at 12:09am
 
The requirements of each machine you are wanting to hook up dictate what you need. However, what you are calling 3 wire, is what you most likely need. Neutral isn't needed for 220v loads unless it uses 110 for control and doesn't have it's own internal transformer. Unless you have 3hp 220v motors or are doing long runs 10awg may be overkill, not that overkill isn't ok.
I'm an electrician, but I'm in Canada, quite a bit of the NEC and the CEC are the same, but I'd recommend talking to either an inspector of an electrician that can see what you are up to. In Canada if you use metallic conduit the conduit is the bond(ground), all connections must be tight, but I gather from your inquiry you are running cable so that doesn't matter.
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John Pierce
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Re: Shop electrical help
Reply #11 - Dec 11th, 2014 at 12:31am
 
Shane,
How is your wiring project coming?  I'm pretty new to wood turning, but have done lots of residential and industrial electrical wiring.  Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions left.
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Kind regards to all,
 
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Shane Durham
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Re: Shop electrical help
Reply #12 - Dec 18th, 2014 at 4:32am
 
I had an electrician come and check everything out and he said everything was A OK with one exception...  Apparently the 220 30A outlets I bought were not 220...  I guess I need to actually read the box in the future.  I figured that since they were 30A and huge like a "real" 220 outlet that they would actually be 220... Now I know.  The new twist lock 220 outlets are now in.  With all that said, the shop work came to a halt.  I'm dealing with some things and I have exactly zero motivation...  I'm hoping that I can get the will up this weekend to finish everything.  All that's left is to put down the epoxy floor, finish sand the outside wall (this wall is actually going to be a new hallway in the finished basement) then do the knock down texturing.  Throw on the door and move equipment in.  I know that at this point I really only have about 2-3 days of work, I just need to kick myself in the bottom and get to it.  If there is anyone in North Georgia that want's to come help me, I would absolutely accept and gladly supply the food and beverage.
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Ralph Fahringer
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Re: Shop electrical help
Reply #13 - Dec 18th, 2014 at 9:29am
 
Good  to see your post. I was wondering how you were doing as well.

I think alot of us would love to come down just for the chance to kick you in the butt AND get fed as well!!  Grin Grin

...but Georgia is too far for me this time of the year. Smiley

In my shop. I finally have all of the insulation in the ceiling and now between Xmas and New Years when I close my store, I hope to run the conduit for the wiring to outlet boxes on the walls.
Good luck with yours!
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« Last Edit: Dec 18th, 2014 at 9:31am by Ralph Fahringer »  

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Shane Durham
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Re: Shop electrical help
Reply #14 - Dec 18th, 2014 at 7:18pm
 
Thanks Ralph, be sure to post some pictures (maybe that will get me motivated).
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