Woodturner's Resource
Woodturner's Resource  
  • Featured Artist    • Websites   Support Wr
Tutorials, Projects & Tips   • Event Calendar   • Tool and Book Store
  Home Page Forum HelpSearch Map TPT Resources LoginRegister
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Filling large gaps with resin/epoxy (Read 1,667 times)
 
Mark Putnam
Active Member
***
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 119

Houston, Texas, USA
Houston
Texas
USA

Gender: male

Grizzly H8259 10" x 18" benchtop lathe - 1/2hp motor - Speeds: 826, 1205, 1713, 2422, 3337 RPM
Filling large gaps with resin/epoxy
Jun 13th, 2016 at 3:22pm
 
I'm interested in tips for filling large gaps in bowl blanks with clear/dyed resins and epoxies. I've seen a lot of videos on filling small cracks and contained holes--areas that are not in danger of producing what I would call "run-off." But I am not finding a lot on filling larger spaces or spaces that are on uneven/unlevel parts of blanks.

Let me explain... (And I apologize for not having pictures. The blank in question that spawned this topic found itself deep in my shop trash can in a fit of frustration, and it has since been carried off to the Great Kiln in the Sky...)

I had a nice little piece of oak from a neighbor's tree that I honestly didn't think would amount to anything. I put it on the lathe and started roughing it in to a bowl shape. The dimensions of this rough bowl were approximately 8" in diameter and 5" deep--nothing huge. I roughed it in to a traditional bowl shape; nothing fancy.

Low and behold, the wood produced a blank that had a large gash in the side, running 180 degrees outside the circumference of the bowl, right at the middle of the side. In the middle, this gash was maybe 1/2" wide, and as it ran around the side in both directions it narrowed down in to nothing. It had holes--from worms, presumably--going deeper in to the blank.

I first thought to throw it away. It was not rotten. It was good and hard oak. Maybe a little green. But a good, solid piece of wood. So I thought to perhaps fill it in with some kind of resin.

I wrapped the blank up in 4 layers of saran wrap. Then I poked a small hole in the saran over where the gash was the deepest. I took a repurposed marinade injector, and I injected about 2 ounces of blue-dyed resin (Castin' Craft, which I had used for pen blanks) in to the gash. It all immediately ran out, leaked from the saran, and got all over my workbench.

So my question to you all is this... If you were to approach filling this gash on this blank with some kind of dyed resin, how would you do it?

Thanks,
Mark
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Register To Remove Ads
Dave Gill
WR Champion
*****
Offline


Good People - Good Info!

Posts: 346

Hayward, California, USA
Hayward
California
USA

Gender: male

Jet 1220VS
Jet 1642EVS-2
Re: Filling large gaps with resin/epoxy
Reply #1 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 4:01pm
 
Mark - I would probably use 5 minute epoxy dyed to the color I wanted with acrylic paint or some kind of colored powder or glitter to fill the void. Might have to do several layers and or portions depending on the extent of the void.

Remember when using a dye or powder with epoxy, mix it in the part A before mixing in the part B - gives you longer working time before it starts to setup.

You might want to wrap the outside with stretch wrap and packaging tape and turn the inside of the bowl before filling the void. This way you are not wasting epoxy that would be turned out when doing the inside of the bowl. Once you have the inside of the bowl to the thickness you want, cover the void from the inside with tape and proceed to fill the void from the outside. Once the epoxy is cured, depending on how much overfill you get, you can turn and/or sand the inside and outside of the bowl and finish as desired.

If the void is large enough, you can even in bed pieces of turquoise or other objects in the epoxy.

HTH - Dave G.
Back to top
  

I know I ask perfection of a quite imperfect world...and fool enough to think that's what I'll find!
 
IP Logged
 
Don Stephan
WR Addict
*****
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 1,503

Cincinnati, Ohio, Ohio, USA
Cincinnati, Ohio
Ohio
USA

Gender: male
Re: Filling large gaps with resin/epoxy
Reply #2 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 6:58pm
 
Not sure I would try filling in green wood.  The moisture might affect adhesion, and you don't want a chunk of filler launched next time the blank is on the lathe.  Also, as the wood dries there will be shrinkage and perhaps warpage, pulling away from the filler.
Back to top
  
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Jeff Vanden Boogart
WR Patron
******
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 715

Rural Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
Rural Green Bay
Wisconsin
USA

Gender: male

PM 3520
Re: Filling large gaps with resin/epoxy
Reply #3 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 8:53pm
 
Mark, something like duct tape instead of saran wrap might stop the leakage.  It's work for me on smaller gaps.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Online



Posts: 4,843

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: Filling large gaps with resin/epoxy
Reply #4 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 8:54am
 
Don Stephan wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 6:58pm:
Not sure I would try filling in green wood.  The moisture might affect adhesion, and you don't want a chunk of filler launched next time the blank is on the lathe.  Also, as the wood dries there will be shrinkage and perhaps warpage, pulling away from the filler.


I'm with Don on this
You need to let the piece dry as much as possible before you start any type of fill/repair.
Also, don't think the patch will give any strength to the bowl. It's still a bowl with holes in it.
(with no photo we don't know how large of a repair this is)
You still need to use caution when turning, as if the patch wasn't filled.
If your filler is to thick or viscous, it may not migrate into all the nooks and cracks, this can also be dangerous. Stop and check often as you remove material to inspect that the filler (what ever you choose to use) has filled all the voids and re-apply as necessary.
Having a loose chunk of fill fly off is no different than wood, it can still injure you.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Dave Gill
WR Champion
*****
Offline


Good People - Good Info!

Posts: 346

Hayward, California, USA
Hayward
California
USA

Gender: male

Jet 1220VS
Jet 1642EVS-2
Re: Filling large gaps with resin/epoxy
Reply #5 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 9:34am
 
Sorry folks - missed the part about the blank being wet wood and completely agree that the piece should be dry before filling the void.

Depending on the size of the void, it is still not a bad idea to wrap the outside of the blank, once the outside has been turned, with stretch wrap to help hold the blank together. You can get rolls of 6" wide stretch wrap and your local big box store.

Have fun and stay safe - Dave G.
Back to top
  

I know I ask perfection of a quite imperfect world...and fool enough to think that's what I'll find!
 
IP Logged
 
Mark Putnam
Active Member
***
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 119

Houston, Texas, USA
Houston
Texas
USA

Gender: male

Grizzly H8259 10" x 18" benchtop lathe - 1/2hp motor - Speeds: 826, 1205, 1713, 2422, 3337 RPM
Re: Filling large gaps with resin/epoxy
Reply #6 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 1:31pm
 
Ok. Understood about the green wood issue and will note it for the future. The piece of wood in question is long gone, and I won't be messing with it again.

In my rambling, I probably didn't convey my question as clearly as I should have. So here goes:

How would you secure or wrap such a piece to ensure that the filler remains in the gap and doesn't run out?

From Dan's earlier response it sounds like I might have been on the right track with plastic wrap, but probably should have secured it further with duct tape?

This picture is a very close approximation of what I was dealing with, only the gap was on the side of the bowl and not the bottom. It was not quite this big, either, but close.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Don Stephan
WR Addict
*****
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 1,503

Cincinnati, Ohio, Ohio, USA
Cincinnati, Ohio
Ohio
USA

Gender: male
Re: Filling large gaps with resin/epoxy
Reply #7 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 6:40pm
 
Don't even want to know how you turned that lump of wood.  If the top is the tenon that was gripped in the chuck, the tenon is only connected perhaps 25% of its diameter to the rest of the bowl.  When there is a void or in this case included bark along part of the side of the bowl, wrapping the exterior well with plastic wrap and then duct tape can help hold together while the inside is turned, but the piece in the picture looks like a Darwin award.
Back to top
  
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Register To Remove Ads
Dave Gill
WR Champion
*****
Offline


Good People - Good Info!

Posts: 346

Hayward, California, USA
Hayward
California
USA

Gender: male

Jet 1220VS
Jet 1642EVS-2
Re: Filling large gaps with resin/epoxy
Reply #8 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 10:01am
 
WOW - that looks like an "interesting" chunk of wood - like Don said, if the top of that piece was what the chuck was holding you are very lucky it did not come off when you were turning the outside.

I think what you are looking for is being able to infuse or impregnate the void with resin. Dave Bell, a member of this site, has a You Tube videos on this process. It does require using a vacuum chamber and curing the resin in an oven but you can get some interesting castings. Your piece maybe too large for this process.

Go to You Tube and type in his name to see his video.
Back to top
  

I know I ask perfection of a quite imperfect world...and fool enough to think that's what I'll find!
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Online



Posts: 4,843

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: Filling large gaps with resin/epoxy
Reply #9 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 10:40am
 
Dave Gill wrote on Jun 15th, 2016 at 10:01am:
I think what you are looking for is being able to infuse or impregnate the void with resin. Dave Bell, a member of this site, has a You Tube videos on this process. It does require using a vacuum chamber

I think the safest thing to do is put it in the firewood pile.
The next would be using some sort of vacuum process as Dave suggested. I don't know of any other way you can fill all of those voids thoroughly while eliminating all the air gaps.
Even if you manage to get this piece infused in some way, great care should be taken while turning to keep the pieces together.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Mark Putnam
Active Member
***
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 119

Houston, Texas, USA
Houston
Texas
USA

Gender: male

Grizzly H8259 10" x 18" benchtop lathe - 1/2hp motor - Speeds: 826, 1205, 1713, 2422, 3337 RPM
Re: Filling large gaps with resin/epoxy
Reply #10 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 11:10am
 
Ok... Sorry to sound defensive or rude... But the piece in the picture is NOT my piece. I'm not turning that piece of wood. I got the picture off of the Internet. It is only an illustration. And it is an illustration referring to a piece that is also now gone.

And I completely understand about safety. I really do.

My question is about technique, in general, of filling a void that presents a risk of the filler running out.

Thank you for the suggestion of the vacuum method. I will look in to it.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Jacobs
WR Supporter
*****
Offline


JC L&S

Posts: 1,192

North DFW, Texas, USA
North DFW
Texas
USA

Gender: male
Re: Filling large gaps with resin/epoxy
Reply #11 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 1:27pm
 
Mark, look at the TPT for Dave Bell's articles. They and HE helped me for similar deal. Pressure pot from Harbor Freight, be sure everything is dry including the air and atmosphere. I found that using masking tape held the best seal. Wrap after the tape  is suggested to hold resin from going all over the place. Place item in container that resin will not stick to.

Glenn J.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Online



Posts: 4,843

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: Filling large gaps with resin/epoxy
Reply #12 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 2:00pm
 
Mark Putnam wrote on Jun 15th, 2016 at 11:10am:
My question is about technique, in general, of filling a void that presents a risk of the filler running out.


Mark, you can always fill a cheap plastic container or bag with the resin/filler of choice and submerge the bowl blank into it. You my have to shake or vibrate it to release all the trapped air. I don't think filling the voids and then taping over them once filled will be as effective.
Don't take this the wrong way but in the future, I would suggest trying to submit a photo of your piece.
One, it gets confusing and Two, no to pieces are ever alike.
Using a generic photo is only going to give you generic answers.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Louie Powell
WR Devotee
*****
Offline



Posts: 664

Saratoga Springs, New York, USA
Saratoga Springs
New York
USA

Gender: male

PSI 12" Turncrafter Commander
Re: Filling large gaps with resin/epoxy
Reply #13 - Jun 19th, 2016 at 8:01pm
 
Mark

I think the situation you described wither the flaw was on the surface actually presented TWO potential problems. 

1.  How to fill the void while minimizing the tendency of the filler to spill out of the flaw
2.  How to fill the void so that the resulting patch remains securely a part of the finished turning

As to the first issue, the short answer is 'patience'.  The long answer is that the void needs to be filled in stages, and this could take hours if not days with the filler curing between applications.

You can't do anything about gravity, which means that if the void extends around the side of the bowl, the filler will tend to run 'downhill' around that side.  One possible solution is to construct dams that holds the filler in place until it cures.  Something like what you were trying to do with saran wrap, but possibly on a smaller scale.  Fill a portion of the void, let it cure, remove the dam and if necessary construct another so that you work your way around the side of the bowl in stages.  And yes, this is messy so work in an area where spillage won't hurt anything important.  If you have to overfill the flaw, and get some runs, that's ok - just let the filler cure and return the bowl to smooth the surface.

Others have raised the issue that repairing a surface flaw is difficult because the patch is on the surface, and if it doesn't adhere tightly to the piece, it can fly off as you are  turning and sanding.  One solution is to use a rotary tool and burr to deepen the flaw in a way that provides a stronger bond to the underlying wood.  Think about how the dentist grinds out a cavity before doing a filling.

If the flaw is very large, it could be helpful to add some reinforcing.  For example, you could drill holes in the bottom of the flaw, turn some dowels out of the same wood and glue those into holes in the turning to fill some of the void, and then add the filler around the dowels.

Another idea is to do a 'dutchman'.  A dutchman is a patch used in the flatwork world that is glued into a recess carved into the piece, and then sanded flush with the surface.   Most often they are oval and both the recess and filler are made using a router with a spiral cutting bit and collar. You can use the same timber, but some people prefer to use a contrasting material to show off the craftsmanship.   I was in custom fine furniture shop just yesterday that had a table that had been patched using brass dutchmen .

In the world of turning you can do effectively the same thing by drilling out the flaw, enlarging the hole, gluing in a dowel of the correct diameter, and then finish turning the surface.  Theoretically, you could use a router to cut some other shape, but drilling is much easier when the piece is turned on a lathe.  And if you drill at an angle, the patch will end up being oval.

If you do a search in YouTube, you will find some videos by Frank Howarth, an architect and turner in the Portland area who has a shop that is absolutely amazing.  He has several videos in which he has turned bowls from imperfect wood, then used a bandsaw to cut out the flawed sections of the finished bowl, glued in a contrasting timber, and then returned the bowl. 

Finally, it isn't always necessary to  repair flaws, especially if they are natural artifacts in the timber. 
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2016 at 8:02pm by Louie Powell »  

Louie
 
IP Logged
 
Tim Hyatt
WR Supporter
*****
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 624

Charleston WV, West Virginia, USA
Charleston WV
West Virginia
USA

Gender: male
Re: Filling large gaps with resin/epoxy
Reply #14 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 10:06am
 
i've had good luck with packing tape, though you do have to sand the area around the fill point, down fairly fine grit and make sure all the dust is off the area first...   i've got one project where the wife wanted a "glittery rim" on it; going to try building up a dam with clay and tape to build up an Inlace rim.....still thinking about that one and i think i may be going at it from the wrong direction...  (occured to me i might be better to to it "upside down" with a circular mold of some kind, likely built up from clay or something similar....
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jul 26th, 2016 at 10:08am by Tim Hyatt »  
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print