Woodturner's Resource
Woodturner's Resource  
  • Featured Artist    • Websites   Support Wr
Tutorials, Projects & Tips   • Event Calendar   • Tool and Book Store
  Home Page Forum HelpSearch Map TPT Resources LoginRegister
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print
What is too expensive? (Read 1,491 times)
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 4,691

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
What is too expensive?
Aug 11th, 2016 at 9:17am
 
I have been critical of what I see as UN-necessarily "overpriced" tools.
Woodworking can be an inexpensive hobby/craft to start but many times it quickly becomes very expensive. There are many ways to perform the same task with various levels of skills and equipment.
This bring me to the latest offender IMO.
Another offering  from woodpeckers One Time Tools collection, Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
Don't get me wrong, this looks like a nice tool but the price ($639) is a deal breaker in my book. Too expensive for the hobbyist and not really a professional tool IMO
I won't go into the long list of other things you could buy for the same price that would do the same job and still leave money left over (it's a long list), I just don't understand who these tools are aimed at.
I would consider this a niche tool that serves little purpose and when a simple doweling jig costs over $600, it has the side effect of increasing the price of other woodworking tools.

Now I own a very inexpensive doweling jig that works "reasonably well", I rarely use it. While I don't use dowels much these days, when I do, I find the easiest way to align the holes quickly and accurately is to use an inexpensive set of dowel centers Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Everyone has there own criteria of what is or isn't the right purchase for them, IMO this is a step too far.
rant over
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Register To Remove Ads
Chris Neilan
WR Supporter
*****
Offline


OUCH!

Posts: 787

Waterford, Connecticut, USA
Waterford
Connecticut
USA

Gender: male

Powermatic 3520
Delta 46-460
Shopsmith 10 ER
Shopsmith Mark V
Shopsmith Mark 7 Powerpro
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #1 - Aug 11th, 2016 at 7:52pm
 
I totally agree. I also bought that same set of dowel centers (in 1976!) and they worked great. I say "worked great" because only the Lord knows where they might be!  Embarrassed
Back to top
« Last Edit: Aug 11th, 2016 at 7:53pm by Chris Neilan »  

Delta 46-460: awesome
Powermatic 3520: more awesome!
Shopsmith Mark 7: Wonderful! (But I don't use it as a lathe yet)
Shopsmith Mark V
Shopsmith 10ER
 
IP Logged
 
David Hamann
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline


papadave

Posts: 5,598

Pasco WA, Washington, USA
Pasco WA
Washington
USA

Gender: male

Jet 1014VSI
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #2 - Aug 11th, 2016 at 8:09pm
 
any time i see "woodpecker" and "one time tool" together in the same sentence, all i really see is $$$ going bye bye to never be seen again.
Back to top
  

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind.” - Ted Geisel

Be yourself, after all, everyone else is taken.
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 4,691

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #3 - Aug 11th, 2016 at 9:24pm
 
If it were priced properly IMO, like about 1/3 the current price, it would probably go UN-noticed.
Most of these "one time tools" appear to be decent tools but to say they're asking a premium price for them would be an understatement.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ken Vaughan
WR Patron
******
Offline


Still learning

Posts: 3,685

Juneau, Alaska, USA
Juneau
Alaska
USA

Gender: male

Stubby 750
Jet 1014 vs
Bonnie Klein Lathe

Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #4 - Aug 11th, 2016 at 9:32pm
 

Bridge City Toolworks has the really high end of yuppydom tool costs.

Makes some of the others look low cost.

Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 4,691

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #5 - Aug 11th, 2016 at 9:45pm
 
Ken Vaughan wrote on Aug 11th, 2016 at 9:32pm:
yuppydom
   Smiley
I don't know Ken, there dowel drilling jig is only about $450  Roll Eyes
They might be getting some competition.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ken Vaughan
WR Patron
******
Offline


Still learning

Posts: 3,685

Juneau, Alaska, USA
Juneau
Alaska
USA

Gender: male

Stubby 750
Jet 1014 vs
Bonnie Klein Lathe

Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #6 - Aug 11th, 2016 at 11:26pm
 

Ed, you only looked at the basic stripped down core beginning unit imperial or metric.    There are lots of "accessories" that are lacking on the basic unit.  Enough to double or triple the basic price. 

Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 4,691

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #7 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 9:09am
 
Ahh yes, the always important (AKA expensive0 accessories not included, how could I have missed them.  Roll Eyes

It's hard for me to explain why I find tools "like these" to be somehow less of a tool and more of a gadget.
I have many tools from many different professions, some are expensive and some aren't. I never really considered myself a "tool guy" because I just bought what I needed, over the years it has added up to a pretty good collection. I have very few "gadgets" and was never compelled to buy every new thing that came out.
IMO
Tools like the above doweling jig are a cross between being to complicated and too fiddly.
When changing from one task to another, (you should probably have the instruction handy) you typically hear or read something like,
All you need to do is change this, remove that, adjust this, attach this, set that, align this and you're ready to go, it's that simple.  Huh Roll Eyes
A craftsman with minimal skill could probably mark and drill in a fraction of the time.

It's really an age old discussion about knowing how to perform a task with few if any aides or purchasing a tool that will perform the same task for you, so there's no need to know.
While I have nothing against innovation or tools helping me to perform certain tasks more efficiently, there is a point where, if you know how to perform the task at hand, you can easily see why certain tools simply won't help in any measurable way, like time or money.
(This may come from working with tools professionally, where you can't afford to buy or use inferior tools, regardless of profession.)

If you have disposable income and lots of time on your hands there are plenty of opportunities for you in the tool/gadget arena.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ron Sardo
WR Administrator
WR Patron
*****
Offline


Chief cook and bottle
washer

Posts: 9,263

Drums, Pennsylvania, USA
Drums
Pennsylvania
USA


PM 3520
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #8 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 12:32pm
 
Ed Weber wrote on Aug 11th, 2016 at 9:17am:
Now I own a very inexpensive doweling jig that works "reasonably well", I rarely use it.


Since I enjoy making my own tools, my doweling jig is cheaper than yours

First I find the center of a board using a tool like this, the one I made is from wood that I drilled with three evenly spaced holes which I inserted with two nails and a pencil in the center. I use it to draw a centered a line down the side of a board where I want the dowel(s)

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Then I use a spring loaded center punch to make a dimple on the line I just drew. Next I place a glass bead in the dimple (my daughters would make jewelry when they where children and lent me a bunch of beads). Sometimes I would use some tape or hot glue to hold the bead in place, sometimes spit would even work when no one was looking.

I placed the dimpled board on a flat level surface then placed the second next to it. Check the alignment and clamped the two together. The bead would transfer a dimple to the second board in perfect alignment.
Back to top
  

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Tom Coghill
WR Addict
*****
Offline


Turning, when I am done
with my chores.

Posts: 1,044

Anchorage, Alaska, USA
Anchorage
Alaska
USA

Gender: male

Oneway 2436, 3 HP 220V
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #9 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 1:59pm
 
I use these.  I think a set is $5.50.   Huh  Not sure what I would do with the remaining $633.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
David Hamann
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline


papadave

Posts: 5,598

Pasco WA, Washington, USA
Pasco WA
Washington
USA

Gender: male

Jet 1014VSI
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #10 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 3:12pm
 
i got the Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register when it was only $49 9 years ago. it is still in the original unopened box. Wink

depending on the project, i either pocket screw, biscuit, or tongue and groove the joint.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Aug 12th, 2016 at 3:13pm by David Hamann »  

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind.” - Ted Geisel

Be yourself, after all, everyone else is taken.
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 4,691

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #11 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 3:55pm
 
Ron Sardo wrote on Aug 12th, 2016 at 12:32pm:
Since I enjoy making my own tools, my doweling jig is cheaper than yours


You got me there.  Grin

Regarding the One Time Tool,
The funniest thing I thought was the design video. Every tool goes through a certain amount of development but it's not usually shown to the end (retail) customer.
It's as if they're saying, "are you wondering why this thing costs do much?, well here's why. We tried dozens of prototypes until we finally got there, if we came up with the solution quicker you probably wouldn't have to pay as much".
The video actually has sections called,
Experimentation and making scrap
Hitting the wall and finding a simple solution
JMO
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
David Hamann
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline


papadave

Posts: 5,598

Pasco WA, Washington, USA
Pasco WA
Washington
USA

Gender: male

Jet 1014VSI
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #12 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 7:18pm
 
i understand the need for R&D and the associated cost, BUT, this tool already existed, was cheaper, and worked. they did little if any new innovation. just trying to rack in the $$ from the gullible.
Back to top
  

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind.” - Ted Geisel

Be yourself, after all, everyone else is taken.
 
IP Logged
 
David Hamann
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline


papadave

Posts: 5,598

Pasco WA, Washington, USA
Pasco WA
Washington
USA

Gender: male

Jet 1014VSI
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #13 - Aug 13th, 2016 at 7:25pm
 
check it out: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

and ONLY $106.62 with free shipping!
Back to top
  

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind.” - Ted Geisel

Be yourself, after all, everyone else is taken.
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 4,691

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #14 - Aug 13th, 2016 at 9:13pm
 
IMO
The one major fault I see with most all of the "One Time Tools" is that they seem to forget that wood is a natural product and it moves.
Many of their tools seem to be somewhere between overkill for wood and not quite up to par for metal (machinist).
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
David Hamann
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline


papadave

Posts: 5,598

Pasco WA, Washington, USA
Pasco WA
Washington
USA

Gender: male

Jet 1014VSI
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #15 - Aug 13th, 2016 at 11:47pm
 
not to mention unless you size your own stock, big box stores can be hit/miss on thickness, width, and even length. i like the idea of a t-square, but not at $107 when i can get a drafting t-square for $25.
Back to top
  

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind.” - Ted Geisel

Be yourself, after all, everyone else is taken.
 
IP Logged
 
Register To Remove Ads
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 4,691

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #16 - Aug 14th, 2016 at 10:35am
 
David Hamann wrote on Aug 13th, 2016 at 11:47pm:
unless you size your own stock

IMO, you need to, otherwise the T-square (or any measuring tool that references on the wood is worthless)
If your stock has a 1/64" imperfection where you register your measuring tool like the T-square, it can translate to a major deviation along the length of 24", this is why to insure accuracy many woodworkers prefer to measure and mark from both sides.
It doesn't matter if you layout tools is accurate to within .001", if there is a dent in the wood, you can be off a huge amount, (plus or minus .001")
Even when I'm using lumber from big box stores, it needs to be brought to even tolerances by some method of milling, like jointing, planing, ripping or sanding, sometimes all of them.

Which brings me right back to my point about what I see as overpriced tools.
Once you have the knowledge and skill to perform a certain level of woodworking tasks like the ones mentioned above, you've most likely already come to the realization that there are no short cuts or "magic" tools. Manufacturers claims are just that, claims. Many times it's easy to see how or why those claims won't actually materialize in a real world work setting. Even if the tools are of the quality that is claimed, the price is often too prohibitive.
JMO
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ken Vaughan
WR Patron
******
Offline


Still learning

Posts: 3,685

Juneau, Alaska, USA
Juneau
Alaska
USA

Gender: male

Stubby 750
Jet 1014 vs
Bonnie Klein Lathe

Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #17 - Aug 17th, 2016 at 8:02am
 

Some days you just have to bite the hook.  One of mine was getting an Axminister Evolution Chuck with O'Donnell jaws.  Far from cheap, but I find I use it a lot.  Even used the 36 hole indexing in it recently.

Not sitting new in box waiting for the garage sale.....

Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 4,691

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #18 - Aug 17th, 2016 at 8:17am
 
Ken Vaughan wrote on Aug 17th, 2016 at 8:02am:
Not sitting new in box waiting for the garage sale.....


I have often thought that that's where most of these tools are or soon will be.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 4,691

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #19 - Aug 17th, 2016 at 8:32am
 
Ken Vaughan wrote on Aug 17th, 2016 at 8:02am:
One of mine was getting an Axminister Evolution Chuck with O'Donnell jaws.  Far from cheap


I think to be in the same ballpark as far as comparisons to "One Time Tools" go, your setup would have had to cost about $1000.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 4,691

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #20 - May 18th, 2017 at 10:43am
 
Well I've finally found a reasonable priced solution to the OTT Dowel jig  Smiley
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
David Hamann
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline


papadave

Posts: 5,598

Pasco WA, Washington, USA
Pasco WA
Washington
USA

Gender: male

Jet 1014VSI
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #21 - May 19th, 2017 at 3:39am
 
pencil, small square, drill bit, drill, and Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register.

and a flat surface.
Back to top
« Last Edit: May 19th, 2017 at 3:39am by David Hamann »  

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind.” - Ted Geisel

Be yourself, after all, everyone else is taken.
 
IP Logged
 
Chris Neilan
WR Supporter
*****
Offline


OUCH!

Posts: 787

Waterford, Connecticut, USA
Waterford
Connecticut
USA

Gender: male

Powermatic 3520
Delta 46-460
Shopsmith 10 ER
Shopsmith Mark V
Shopsmith Mark 7 Powerpro
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #22 - May 19th, 2017 at 7:22am
 
David Hamann wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 3:39am:
pencil, small square, drill bit, drill, and Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register.

and a flat surface.


Well,  yes, you could do it that way, but that's no fun!  I have never been able to use centering pins with any luck when using a hand drill. Drill press yes! I have seen videos of the Rockler dowler thing a ma jigy. Looks interesting if you do a lot (read that as A LOT) of glue ups. I don't.
Back to top
« Last Edit: May 19th, 2017 at 7:22am by Chris Neilan »  

Delta 46-460: awesome
Powermatic 3520: more awesome!
Shopsmith Mark 7: Wonderful! (But I don't use it as a lathe yet)
Shopsmith Mark V
Shopsmith 10ER
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 4,691

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #23 - May 19th, 2017 at 10:22am
 
Chris Neilan wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 7:22am:
I have seen videos of the Rockler dowler thing a ma jigy. Looks interesting if you do a lot (read that as A LOT) of glue ups.

The Triton tool runs about $200 (accessories extra). It all depends on what you consider to be A LOT and what your time is worth to you. The additional time it takes to measure and drill, no matter what method or jig you use has to be taken into account. There is also the addition of increased accuracy. If I had to cut a 10 -12 pairs, I would own one
I would never pay the price for the OTT, way too much for a jig that you still need to supply the drill and bits to use.
The Triton tool, IMO is well worth the price, and for me, could easily pay for itself with one job.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Kevin Gade
Active Member
***
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 217

N.E. Iowa, Iowa, USA
N.E. Iowa
Iowa
USA

Gender: male
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #24 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 8:13am
 
I use dowel centers as well, the problem i ran into was i needed one that fit a 10mm hole. The imperial was too loose or too big. I couldn't find metrics online so i had to have a local machinist make me a pair. I use them with the SOSS barrel hinge.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 4,691

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #25 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 8:31am
 
I give you thumbs up for having you own made.  Thumbs Up
I don't know when/where you looked but there can be found.
I have seen some on ebay, some on sites I'm not sure I would purchase from and some on Amazon.
Many times the phrasing or name of the item is somewhat different than what we are used to but a small change in the name can keep it from showing up in a search.
For example, at Amazon use the search phrase 'Dowel Drill Centre Points" and you will receive plenty of results.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
George Stratton
Full Member
**
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 66

Gender: male

Old Delta 12" 46-701 in great condition. Had it about 20+ years and turned 1 part.
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #26 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 11:07am
 
Having spent many years machining steel for injection molds and dies, this topic is really enjoyable to read. As a machinist we had a required group of personal tools, micrometers.radius gages, verniers etc. that at the time we considered very expensive for the average guy, but they were a necessity and no where near the cost of some of these woodworking gadgets. In the very short time I have been turning wood on the lathe I have received at least 3 catologs from woodworking suppliers, one of which is "Peachtree" which has thousands of highpriced items for the guy who has unlimited funds. I do not, so everything I turned so far is with my 8 piece set of turning chisels which cost $24.95 and a few home made ones from old wood chisels, on my bench grinder. Really enjoy all the comments on these forums and what I have learned from them in 3 months, maybe 4. I thank you guys for all the help.
Geo.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 4,691

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #27 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 1:20pm
 
George Stratton wrote on Jul 20th, 2017 at 11:07am:
In the very short time I have been turning wood on the lathe I have received at least 3 catologs from woodworking suppliers, one of which is "Peachtree" which has thousands of highpriced items for the guy who has unlimited funds.


I hate to be the one that tells you this but Peachtree is really the bargain priced catalog/website.

Here is IMO another too expensive, unnecessary tool with many dubious claims
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
George Stratton
Full Member
**
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 66

Gender: male

Old Delta 12" 46-701 in great condition. Had it about 20+ years and turned 1 part.
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #28 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 2:54pm
 
Yes they are Ed, I have purchased peppermill mechanisms from them because they are much lower in cost than others like Rockler who is a quick drive from my house. What I meant was that they have an extensive catalog of what you called Gadgets that most guys can get along without.
Thanks for the comment. Geo.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Global Moderator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 4,691

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: What is too expensive?
Reply #29 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 4:50pm
 
Sorry, I misunderstood, yes they have plenty of gadgets. Someone is always trying to build a better mousetrap.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print