The Woodturning Forum - Woodturner's Resource

william trench Senior Member Offline WR Rocks! Posts: 269 South Salem USA	Re: Lichtenberg Wood Burner Reply #15 - Dec 9^th, 2016 at 7:45am My son just sent this to me yesterday: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or
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Tom Brouillette Full Member Offline WR Rocks! Posts: 67 Memphis USA	Re: Lichtenberg Wood Burner Reply #16 - Dec 9^th, 2016 at 11:57am That's a little scary having two transformers in parallel.
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Steve Doerr WR Addict Offline Wood is one of God's hidden /> /> canvases. Posts: 837 Joplin Missouri USA Gender: Rikon 70-050VS Jet 1642 EVS 2HP Robust American Beauty	Re: Lichtenberg Wood Burner Reply #17 - Dec 9^th, 2016 at 11:59am My thoughts as well.
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Bert Delisle

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Re: Lichtenberg Wood Burner
Reply #18 - Dec 9^th, 2016 at 10:41pm

I have made my burner system with 9kv 30mA neon Transformer. I was concerned with the possibility of someone not understanding what the box is and with a standard plug it could be energized, Potentially Very Dangerous.

I have hard wired my two hand switches in line between the 120 volt plug and the transformer. This means that even if someone plugs in the cord no power will go to the transformer unless both hand switches are pressed. This also means I can't use a hand probe because if I release one switch power gets shut off.
My probe holders are similar to Mike Peace's third hand in his video but I use mine as the contact probe holders for both High Tension Leads, leads attach to my #10 awg probes (hardened by twisting) with alligator clips. I set up the wood and probes and then stand back with my two hand switch board to watch the fun.
Having an electrical background I also added a power monitor meter and a Variac in the upstream supply. I now know how much primary current flows for different woods and different solution concentrations.
I did some hollow ball Ornaments but found that I should have done the fractal process BEFORE I hollowed the ball, LOL.
Great learning curve and some very unique artistic embellishment opportunity.
Safety First.

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« Last Edit: Dec 9^th, 2016 at 10:45pm by Bert Delisle »

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Grant Wilkinson

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Re: Lichtenberg Wood Burner
Reply #19 - Dec 11^th, 2016 at 1:16pm

Bert: Would you mind posting where you got your transformer and its model information. I've tried several different ones now - wasting money - only to find that they all had ground fault protection and as a result, they shut down immediately when the probes are touched to the wood. I've spoken to two manufacturers and they have confirmed that transformers with ground fault protection will not work for our purposes.

There was another thread in this forum in which we discussed this question at length and a couple of us asked if those who were successful in finding a transformer that worked would post model information, but no one has done that.

Thank you.

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Grant Wilkinson
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Glenn Roberts Senior Member Offline WR Rocks! Posts: 413 Walworth, NY New York USA Gender:	Re: Lichtenberg Wood Burner Reply #20 - Dec 11^th, 2016 at 8:09pm Grant, is the gfi circuit external to the transformer? If so, bypass may be possible. One method is here: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or
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Grant Wilkinson WR Addict Offline Posts: 783 Ottawa Ontario Canada	Re: Lichtenberg Wood Burner Reply #21 - Dec 11^th, 2016 at 10:42pm Glenn: On all the units that I tried, the GFI circuit is internal. And, when I opened one of the metals cases to see if I could bypass it, the entire transformer and circuity was encased in a solid tar like substance.
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Bert Delisle

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Re: Lichtenberg Wood Burner
Reply #22 - Dec 13^th, 2016 at 12:21am

Grant Wilkinson wrote on Dec 11^th, 2016 at 1:16pm:

Bert: Would you mind posting where you got your transformer and its model information. I've tried several different ones now - wasting money - only to find that they all had ground fault protection and as a result, they shut down immediately when the probes are touched to the wood. I've spoken to two manufacturers and they have confirmed that transformers with ground fault protection will not work for our purposes.

There was another thread in this forum in which we discussed this question at length and a couple of us asked if those who were successful in finding a transformer that worked would post model information, but no one has done that.

Thank you.

The unit used was a GF compliant unit xl1035 made by Array. Not sure where it came from as it was acquired by a fellow woodturner on line. Be very careful with any electrical equipment especially the high tension secondary wiring. Not sure why yours failed but if the ground fault protection triggered then likely your setup may actually have had a ground fault path, the device protection safety apparently worked. I doubt you will find much industry technical support for this re-application of the electrical devices.
Safety is paramount in the Woodturning environment and more so with electrical.

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Ed Weber

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Re: Lichtenberg Wood Burner
Reply #23 - Dec 13^th, 2016 at 10:26am

Bert Delisle wrote on Dec 13^th, 2016 at 12:21am:

I doubt you will find much industry technical support for this re-application of the electrical devices.

You don't/won't find too many people willing to tell you how to disable the safety devices on their products. While a product that was designed for a certain application may work in another, it's not supposed to and usually not tested to do so. Products are tested for proper operation in the normal operating conditions that they are likely to experience and then pushed to failure.
If you use a product in a way in which it wasn't designed, then there is really no way you can predict how or when it may fail.
It may also be illegal to provide this type of information to consumers in some circumstances.

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Bert Delisle

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Re: Lichtenberg Wood Burner
Reply #24 - Feb 15^th, 2017 at 10:26pm

I am amazed at how many folks take huge risks with HIgh Voltage electricity, like hand holding probes. Hence the "dead man switch" as its name implies when your dead it shuts off.
My home made system (neon tx) has safety and controls that address respect for High voltage. Probes are in holders that are placed on the work piece and two hand switches are hard wired wired in series with the transformer so that both hands are nowhere near any current carrying High Voltage wires when power is applied. No need for a "Dead man" switch because as soon as one hand is moved to adjust a probe the hand switch opens and cuts power off. In my opinion much safer to avoid any and all body contact with energized high voltage.
JMNSHO

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« Last Edit: Feb 15^th, 2017 at 10:28pm by Bert Delisle »

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Rob Grindler

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Re: Lichtenberg Wood Burner
Reply #25 - Feb 16^th, 2017 at 12:49pm

Bert Delisle wrote on Feb 15^th, 2017 at 10:26pm:

I am amazed at how many folks take huge risks with HIgh Voltage electricity, like hand holding probes. Hence the "dead man switch" as its name implies when your dead it shuts off.
My home made system (neon tx) has safety and controls that address respect for High voltage. Probes are in holders that are placed on the work piece and two hand switches are hard wired wired in series with the transformer so that both hands are nowhere near any current carrying High Voltage wires when power is applied. No need for a "Dead man" switch because as soon as one hand is moved to adjust a probe the hand switch opens and cuts power off. In my opinion much safer to avoid any and all body contact with energized high voltage.
JMNSHO

Sorry, I'm not understanding your explanation of how your system works.It sounds great ,but could you explain further how it disconnects when you move your hand,Maybe a picture or two if you can.

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Rob Grindler

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Re: Lichtenberg Wood Burner
Reply #26 - Feb 17^th, 2017 at 1:10pm

Rob Grindler wrote on Feb 16^th, 2017 at 12:49pm:

Bert Delisle wrote on Feb 15^th, 2017 at 10:26pm:

I am amazed at how many folks take huge risks with HIgh Voltage electricity, like hand holding probes. Hence the "dead man switch" as its name implies when your dead it shuts off.
My home made system (neon tx) has safety and controls that address respect for High voltage. Probes are in holders that are placed on the work piece and two hand switches are hard wired wired in series with the transformer so that both hands are nowhere near any current carrying High Voltage wires when power is applied. No need for a "Dead man" switch because as soon as one hand is moved to adjust a probe the hand switch opens and cuts power off. In my opinion much safer to avoid any and all body contact with energized high voltage.
JMNSHO

Sorry, I'm not understanding your explanation of how your system works.It sounds great ,but could you explain further how it disconnects when you move your hand,Maybe a picture or two if you can.

Thanks for your PM. Thumbs Up

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Bert Delisle

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Re: Lichtenberg Wood Burner
Reply #27 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:42pm

Rob Grindker wrote;
Sorry, I'm not understanding your explanation of how your system works.It sounds great ,but could you explain further how it disconnects when you move your hand,Maybe a picture or two if you can.

Rob I managed to remember to snap a picture of my system when I set up to burn a project. And was able reduce the size to a forum eleigible size. You can see my switch board on the left. Probe holders are adjustable up, down and probes can rotate sideways to meet any expected project shape or size.

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« Last Edit: Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:50pm by Bert Delisle »

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