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Yorkshire Grit (Read 808 times)
 
Larry Cutlip
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Yorkshire Grit
Nov 12th, 2016 at 10:15am
 
Is there any other product that is similar to Yorkshire grit?

Thanks  Larry
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Re: Yorkshire Grit
Reply #1 - Nov 12th, 2016 at 10:37am
 
Yorkshire Grit is an abrasive wax - a blend of beeswax and rottenstone (aka Tripoli).  It is not a finish, but rather is a polishing compound.

Similar products include Dr. Kirk's Scratchfreee (made in the US) and EEE Ultrashine (made in Australia)

And if you are so inclined, Daniel Vilarino has a video on his YouTube channel about making up your own version from the basic ingredients.
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Larry Cutlip
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Re: Yorkshire Grit
Reply #2 - Nov 12th, 2016 at 11:33am
 
Thanks Louie
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Ed Weber
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Re: Yorkshire Grit
Reply #3 - Nov 12th, 2016 at 12:46pm
 
Louie Powell wrote on Nov 12th, 2016 at 10:37am:
Yorkshire Grit is an abrasive wax - a blend of beeswax and rottenstone (aka Tripoli).  It is not a finish, but rather is a polishing compound.


Be sure to read the product description thoroughly on these products, they can be confusing.
While they may not be considered "finishes" they contain waxes and/or oils.
This limits what can be applied after using these products.
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Larry Cutlip
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Re: Yorkshire Grit
Reply #4 - Nov 12th, 2016 at 6:26pm
 
That was my next question.  What can be applied over them?

Larry
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Louie Powell
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Re: Yorkshire Grit
Reply #5 - Nov 12th, 2016 at 9:34pm
 
Larry Cutlip wrote on Nov 12th, 2016 at 6:26pm:
That was my next question.  What can be applied over them?

Larry


The obvious options are wax or a shellac-based friction polish.  I've had success with a friction polish made from shellac, DNA, and a commercial oil and wax blend.

Some of the products suggest using a solvent to remove any residual wax before applying an oil-based finish, but I haven't tried that.

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Re: Yorkshire Grit
Reply #6 - Nov 13th, 2016 at 8:32am
 
A few years ago Jeff Gilfor posted on this forum that he has had good success with oil base finishes directly over EEE or Dr Kirk's. 

I also want to mention an alternative to mineral oil based versions, Dr's Woodshop sells walnut oil & wax mixtures, and he has a video where he adds FFF pumice to that product as a similar polishing compound.  I tried it once, it seemed to work fine.  But in general I find wet sanding with walnut oil very effective and use that more often than not, with no need for other polishing compounds. .
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Re: Yorkshire Grit
Reply #7 - Nov 13th, 2016 at 9:40am
 
Louie Powell wrote on Nov 12th, 2016 at 9:34pm:
The obvious options are wax or a shellac-based friction polish.  I've had success with a friction polish made from shellac, DNA, and a commercial oil and wax blend.

Some of the products suggest using a solvent to remove any residual wax before applying an oil-based finish, but I haven't tried that.

I with Louie on this one
On the second part, why would you want to apply a finish only to strip it off to use something else. This is why I stress reading the manufacturers directions.
Mike Nathal wrote on Nov 13th, 2016 at 8:32am:
A few years ago Jeff Gilfor posted on this forum that he has had good success with oil base finishes directly over EEE or Dr Kirk's. 


I think the only way this is possible, is to strip off the wax before you try to apply another product. Basic finishing knowledge should tell you that penetrating finishes (oils) don't/won't typically penetrate or adhere to wax. This is one of the reasons why we wax things
I honestly don't know why you would try such a thing.
Wax and oil blend products are usually heated or polymerized in some way before you apply them or in the case of friction polish, when you're applying it.
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Re: Yorkshire Grit
Reply #8 - Nov 13th, 2016 at 11:21am
 
Can you explain the situation where you want to use something like Yorkshire grit - what's being made, from what, what are prior sanding steps, what is desired final look, what is desired level of protection or desired used for the product?  Perhaps there is an alternative procedure that would avoid applying wax.
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Re: Yorkshire Grit
Reply #9 - Nov 13th, 2016 at 12:00pm
 
Don Stephan wrote on Nov 13th, 2016 at 11:21am:
Can you explain the situation where you want to use something like Yorkshire grit - what's being made, from what, what are prior sanding steps, what is desired final look, what is desired level of protection or desired used for the product?  Perhaps there is an alternative procedure that would avoid applying wax.



Don - your question raises a very important point.

Products like Yorkshire Grit, EEE Ultrashine and Dr. Kirk's are intended to polish wood turnings to a high degree of smoothness/gloss.  They can be used on plastics, but there are other products that also address those applications (such as Novus 2, Meguires, etc). 

These products have gotten a lot of attention in the past few months after the introduction of Yorkshire Grit and a number of YouTube videos from the UK discussing its application..  The basic description provided by those turners is to use ordinary abrasive papers up to 240 or perhaps 320, and then switch to Yorkshire Grit for the final polish.  Yorkshire Grit and it's cousins are simply a paste made from rottenstone (aka Tripoli, an abrasive), wax, perhaps with either a solvent or mineral oil added to reduce the viscosity and also serve as a lubricant.  The idea is that the rottenstone particles act as an abrasive, but unlike sandpaper or abrasive mesh products  where the particles are bound to a substrate, in abrasive pastes the particles are free.  As a result, as the material is used, the particles break down and become finer, which means that the piece becomes progressively smoother the longer you polish it. 

But the key point here is how highly polished does the piece have to be?  Strictly utilitarian pieces (such as Richard Raffen's bowls that are intended to be used to hold cereal and washed in soap and water) don't need to be highly polished, and if you make them that way, the finish will quickly dull in use.  Conversely, display pieces are often made with high gloss finishes, but abrasive waxes aren't the only way to get that result - you can also use conventional abrasives, apply a finish, and then buff the finish after it cures. And that finish will be harder than the gloss produced by abrasive waxes.

In my case, the application where I found abrasive waxes to be very useful was in making items for use by knitters - nostepinne and yarn caddys - where a very smooth finish was needed to avoid having the yarn snag on the wood. 

So the key point here is what are you making, and what kind of finish does it require?  If it is a display piece where you want it to be unusually smooth, then abrasive waxes are one technique to get that result.  But there are other methods that also work very well. 

On the other hand, if it is a utilitarian piece, you may not want a super smooth, highly glossy finish, and in those cases, abrasive pastes are not the right answer.
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« Last Edit: Nov 13th, 2016 at 12:01pm by Louie Powell »  

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Re: Yorkshire Grit
Reply #10 - Nov 13th, 2016 at 1:30pm
 
Louie Powell wrote on Nov 13th, 2016 at 12:00pm:
But the key point here is how highly polished does the piece have to be?  Strictly utilitarian pieces (such as Richard Raffen's bowls that are intended to be used to hold cereal and washed in soap and water) don't need to be highly polished, and if you make them that way, the finish will quickly dull in use.  Conversely, display pieces are often made with high gloss finishes, but abrasive waxes aren't the only way to get that result - you can also use conventional abrasives, apply a finish, and then buff the finish after it cures. And that finish will be harder than the gloss produced by abrasive waxes.


I prefer this method, while waxes are good at Smooth & Shine, they aren't durable and do require maintenance even with minimal use. There are enough quality finishes available that you can easily find a product that (straight from the can)  will have the "look' you want and the durability.
IMO these abrasive wax products are a quick and dirty way to achieve a smooth finish but afterwards you should put it on the shelf and never touch it.
Also there is nothing to prevent you from buffing wax over a traditional finish, to get the "best of both" if that's what you like.
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Mike Nathal
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Re: Yorkshire Grit
Reply #11 - Nov 14th, 2016 at 9:11am
 
Ed Weber wrote on Nov 13th, 2016 at 9:40am:
I think the only way this is possible, is to strip off the wax before you try to apply another product. Basic finishing knowledge should tell you that penetrating finishes (oils) don't/won't typically penetrate or adhere to wax. This is one of the reasons why we wax thingsI honestly don't know why you would try such a thing.Wax and oil blend products are usually heated or polymerized in some way before you apply them or in the case of friction polish, when you're applying it.


There are two questions here:  1.  Can you do it?  I am speculating but I believe it is feasible that the solvents contained in most oil base finishes (eg.,mineral spirits) would easily dissolve the extremely thin wax layer and allow the oil or varnish to adhere.  This is why I think Jeff Gilfor had success.  2.  Why do it?  This is because the EEE or Yorkshire can be used to get a high surface polish prior to applying a finish.  The wax they contain is just a byproduct of the polishing and many would not want to stop with just this wax as a top coat. 
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Re: Yorkshire Grit
Reply #12 - Nov 14th, 2016 at 10:07am
 
1. I would agree this is what probably what happens.
2. That's partially true and partially opinion.

Why I don't like it. JMO
1. Too much guess work for me, I prefer predictable results when finishing my work.
Mike Nathal wrote on Nov 14th, 2016 at 9:11am:
I believe it is feasible that the solvents contained in most oil base finishes (eg.,mineral spirits) would easily dissolve the extremely thin wax layer and allow the oil or varnish to adhere.

2. I don't see the need or want to
Mike Nathal wrote on Nov 14th, 2016 at 9:11am:
This is because the EEE or Yorkshire can be used to get a high surface polish prior to applying a finish.

These finishes are designed as a "one step" type of product, trying to accomplish two things at once. When you take short cuts, usually something suffers.
When you use these products, the abrasive takes down the high spots and the wax mixture fills on the low spots. This gives the illusion that there is a uniform smooth surface which may not always be the case. Then you want to rely on another product or a particular part (the solvent) of another product to remove or alter in some way what you just applied.  Huh

I prefer to have a smooth clean surface before applying a finish.
Clean means, no tripoli, no wax byproduct, no lubricants or carriers burnished into the pores of the wood.
With the pores of the wood free of foreign contaminants, when a finish is applied it can freely fill the pores and cure. This results in a sharper reflection and refraction of light which in turn, results in a higher degree of chaytoyence.
Now this is a partially matter of aesthetics to me, it's my opinion that i get a "better looking" end result this way.
If I want to, I can always add a coat of wax when I'm done.

Part of it is how you want a piece to look and part of it is how you want a finish to perform. It's up to you to strike the correct balance for your own work.
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Re: Yorkshire Grit
Reply #13 - Nov 14th, 2016 at 3:26pm
 
Ed, I agree. A shortcut is just that, a shortcut. I'm not saying that these are not good products, they are. I just would not make it my go to finish for all jobs. Nothing finishes like clean wood.
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Re: Yorkshire Grit
Reply #14 - Dec 27th, 2016 at 2:22pm
 
I thought the Yorkshire grit and Hampshire sheen went hand-in-hand. First the grit then the sheen as a finish.
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