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Bowl Transituation (Read 755 times)
 
Jerry Lear
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Bowl Transituation
Aug 22nd, 2017 at 12:47pm
 
I have been turning for awhile but still have trouble on the inside of the bowl on turning onto the transition and across the bottom.  I use a side ground bowl gouge with a 60 degree bevel and the heel is relieved.
I know this is end grain but I was hoping someone could give me some pointers to help control the tool when making the transition.
Thanks
Jerry
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Glenn Jacobs
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Re: Bowl Transituation
Reply #1 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:40pm
 
In this area, I use a scraper.

Glenn J.
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Bert Delisle
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Re: Bowl Transituation
Reply #2 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:27pm
 
Glenn Jacobs wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:40pm:
In this area, I use a scraper.

Glenn J.


+1  Thumbs Up scrapers do it, gently.
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Tom Coghill
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Re: Bowl Transituation
Reply #3 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:39pm
 
I have a GREAT little 3/8 inch bowl gouge that I call  my "Bottom Feeder".  It is ground just like a roughing gouge - no sharpening jig, just laid flat on the grinder rest and rotated.  It is SO SWEET.  It does not scrape.  I use it to get a shear cut, leaving the wood cut smooth.  I use a water based sealer, which then raises the grain.  Let it dry then sand lightly with 180, 220 and the 320. Repeat starting at 320.  SWEEEEEET!  Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

It is like the photo attached but a much smaller gouge, but the grind is about the same, maybe a bit steeper.  You need to be able to ride the bevel around the corner and onto the bottom of the bowl.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Bowl Transituation
Reply #4 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:15pm
 
As always, I would like more information.
How big is this bowl?
How sharp of a transition are you talking about?
What size bowl gouge are you currently using?
What type of 'trouble" are you having?
You mentioned end-grain.
Turning a standard bowl with the grain running perpendicular to the ways, a cut down the inside transitioning to the bottom is not an end-grain cut. it a downhill cut whic is the proffered way.
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Steve Doerr
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Re: Bowl Transituation
Reply #5 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 8:28pm
 
I have just started using the bottom feeder that Tom describes.  It does a GREAT job.  It does take some practice to get use to it.  The only thing I would suggest is that you soften the corners on the gouge, otherwise you might get a catch.
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robert baccus
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Re: Bowl Transituation
Reply #6 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 10:06pm
 
I started grinding and posting about these 25 years ago and still many people have not discovered this grind.  Buy a cheap BB 1/2" deep bowl gouge and regrind to this photo.  75 deg +-  and it will cut the transition and flat bottoms and finish cuts also.  A 1" roughing gouge turned exactly the same cuts great on the OUTSIDE of vases and bowls only as well.  Does a great finishing cut---do rub the bevel and do not use as a roughing gouge.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Bowl Transituation
Reply #7 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 8:11am
 
robert baccus wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 10:06pm:
Buy a cheap BB 1/2" deep bowl gouge and regrind to this photo.


No photo Robert
If you add a photo, do not use preview
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Rick Caron
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Re: Bowl Transituation
Reply #8 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 6:01pm
 
I just turned a  locust  bowl  dulled my gouge   so i  changed to a scraper     did good      then   went to  a  negative rack scraper    to take  all tool marks      then  sand  paper      worked  really    good .....
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Glenn Matthies
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Re: Bowl Transituation
Reply #9 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 6:41am
 
robert baccus wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 10:06pm:
I started grinding and posting about these 25 years ago and still many people have not discovered this grind. Buy a cheap BB 1/2" deep bowl gouge and regrind to this photo. 75 deg +- and it will cut the transition and flat bottoms and finish cuts also. A 1" roughing gouge turned exactly the same cuts great on the OUTSIDE of vases and bowls only as well. Does a great finishing cut---do rub the bevel and do not use as a roughing gouge.

I did the same thing with a BB gouge.  It works well.  I did replace the handle with one I turned myself.  The standard BB handles are too short IMO to be used on any decent sized bowl.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Bowl Transituation
Reply #10 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 8:41am
 
There are countless ways to achieve the same task, so whatever works best for you.
IMO
Most bottom-feeders and/or transition gouges are ground straight across (not fingernail)
With a high grind angle two things happen. One is that you can navigate (sweep) the corner or transition area without loosing bevel contact and therefore control. Two is that the grind angle is so high the ability to dig in or get a catch ("gouge" the wood) is diminished.
I will say that grinding a bowl gouge to 75+ degrees you are effectively making a curved scraper.
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robo_hippy
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Re: Bowl Transituation
Reply #11 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 9:51am
 
My preferred BOB tools are 70 degree bevels. I use several different ones. One is the fluteless gouge from Doug Thompson which is half round bar stock. I have a ) shaped nose on it, so with just a little sweep to it. Another is a very shallow fluted detail/spindle detail gouge, same grind. I have one more standard half round flute shape with the same nose profile. Part of the reason for the sweep is to get the corners out of the way. They can be more prone to catching if you have the flutes straight up. I never have flutes straight up because the top side wing can catch. I keep them rolled over to about a 70 degree angle for a high angle shear cut because the higher the shear angle, most of the time, the cleaner the cut. They are not used like a scraper at all, which most of  the time is used with no bevel rubbing, and the cutting edge at 90 degrees to the spin of the wood/flat on the tool rest.

robo hippy
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Don Stephan
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Re: Bowl Transituation
Reply #12 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 6:42pm
 
There are so many different possible shapes for the side, transition, and bottom of a bowl.  Is the side near perfectly vertical, gently curving in, or even curving out?  Is the transition radius tight like a ping pong ball, moderate like a tennis ball, or generous like a volleyball?  Does the bottom have a very gentle downward curve to the very middle or is it perfectly horizonal immediately out of the transition?  It took a number of bowls over a couple years, but I can shape pretty well a more flowing transition with a 50 deg bowl gouge, using a left relieved heavy wide scraper to remove minor tool marks.

With the bowl mounted on the lathe but the lathe off and the tool rest in position, can you move the tip of the gouge down the side, around the transition, and onto the bottom without losing the bevel and without a tool overhang more than 2" at any point?
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robert baccus
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Re: Bowl Transituation
Reply #13 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 9:35pm
 
Yes and they work on flat faces like a platter very well.  They do cut--not a scraper and do great finish cuts.  The corners are not a problem with a narrow--1/2" gouge.  I do hone this grind lightly.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Bowl Transituation
Reply #14 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 9:56am
 
robert baccus wrote on Aug 24th, 2017 at 9:35pm:
They do cut--not a scraper and do great finish cuts.


The point I was making is that like a scraper (that cuts) a 75+ degree angle is more blunt than the standard bowl gouge angles of 60-65. With less of a pointed tip it won't dig in and get a catch.
Every bowl has a different transition shape curvature, diameter, etc. Without knowing exactly the circumstance (I did ask the OP) we are all guessing.
What works for one person doesn't always work for another.
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