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New Open Air Vase (Read 664 times)
 
Bruce L Jones
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New Open Air Vase
Sep 21st, 2017 at 2:56pm
 
My latest efforts; I wanted to try some open air and shapes w/ out getting the project really busy so you can see and appreciate the woods grain.

9" D x 18" Tall Sapel, Maple & Mahogany.

Bruce
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Ralph Fahringer
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Re: New Open Air Vase
Reply #1 - Sep 21st, 2017 at 3:08pm
 
Wow!!! Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
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Rob Grindler
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Re: New Open Air Vase
Reply #2 - Sep 21st, 2017 at 6:43pm
 
Very nice piece.Love that wood.
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Bruce L Jones
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Re: New Open Air Vase
Reply #3 - Sep 21st, 2017 at 8:28pm
 
Thank you Ralph and Rob; Rob the Main body is pommele sapele, the open air slats and top & bottom rings are quarter sawn sapele; all the grain is running vertical except the pattern pieces and top & bottom rings.

Bruce
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Grant Wilkinson
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Re: New Open Air Vase
Reply #4 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 7:41am
 
I'm not crazy about the shape, but your craftsmanship is first rate.
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Grant Wilkinson
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Re: New Open Air Vase
Reply #5 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 10:07am
 
You did not mention if you were accepting C&C's so I won't comment on the piece itself.
I will caution you on the construction.

From what I can see in the photos
.
You've "broken a few segmented grain direction rules with this piece but more importantly, the top ring should not be a single layer.
Without an adjacent ring for support, you are relying on end-grain butt joints only to hold it together. This leaves the ring more susceptible to separating at the joints.
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Bruce L Jones
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Re: New Open Air Vase
Reply #6 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 6:10pm
 
Thank you Grant This is a classic Mediterranean style vase w/ my twist added; the open air segments and patterns.

Ed I left the top ring large to compensate for only the end grain being glued I wanted to see the quatersawn Sapele Ribbons. I've made several pieces this way and have even cut them thinner and have never had any problems.

I was told on another site I should but a tape measure in a photo so you could see how tall this piece really is.

Enjoy,

Bruce
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Ed Weber
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Re: New Open Air Vase
Reply #7 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 8:01pm
 
Bruce L Jones wrote on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 6:10pm:
I've made several pieces this way and have even cut them thinner and have never had any problems.


You may just be lucky.
Temperature and humidity changes alone can cause "issues' along the joint.

Once again, from what I see in the photo,
Having the top ring simply butt joined to the top of the staves can also be a weak joint.  With natural wood movement, the ring and the staves are trying to move in different directions.
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Re: New Open Air Vase
Reply #8 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 12:59pm
 
Ed...what about the fact that the top piece is made of multiple pieces. Does that help lessen the possibility of all of those pieces of wood wanting to move or does it actually make it want to move even more?   

Are you talking about the joints between the top layer and all of those staves?

No idea, myself.. that's why I'm asking.



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Ed Weber
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Re: New Open Air Vase
Reply #9 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 3:52pm
 
The top ring, a "basic" segmented ring.
With wood movement, the effect will actually be expansion (larger diameter) and contraction (smaller diameter). That's the way the wood will want move.
The staves shouldn't really pose a problem, since they are small (area at the glue joint)..
Not knowing the orientation of the grain on the staves, I don't know how they would want to move. Inside to outside or left to right. Inside to outside would be better so that it would move in concert with the top ring.

Wood is much  like a muscle,
Small area of end-grain to side-grain or face-grain, no problem. there isn't enough internal force to break the joint and the glue will hold it securely.
Large area of end-grain to side-grain or face-grain and you can have failure The larger the area of glue contact the more potential force there is when the wood wants to move and the glue can fail. This is why when segmenting most strive for grain alignment to avoid joint failure. If you do have to have a joint as described above, it's always a good idea to reinforce it with a mechanical connection. (mortise, dado)

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to tell anyone how they should go about building their piece.
I'm only offering what can happen. There are many reasons why you don't see segmented pieces built in certain ways and 99% of it has to do with wood movement.
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Bruce L Jones
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Re: New Open Air Vase
Reply #10 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 9:57pm
 
Ed I understand your just being helpful; I knew when making this piece this I was pressing the bounds of segmenting I tend to do this w/ my projects. The grain on the staves is running vertical; I had thought of putting a solid piece on top but didn't want end grain showing to the side. At the top, the staves are almost the same width as the top ring about 1", at the bottom there about 5/16". This may not work: but that being said I had this mounted to a large flat jaw gripping inside and spinning for several hours while finishing the bottom. So far all glue seams are tight; also these (open air staves) were CA glue seams so I guess time will tell. Thank you for all your input and I do not mind C & C on my projects I try to learn something new every day so feel free to ask me questions or make suggestions that's what these sites are for. Thumbs Up

Bruce

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« Last Edit: Sep 24th, 2017 at 8:19am by Bruce L Jones »  

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Ralph Fahringer
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Re: New Open Air Vase
Reply #11 - Sep 24th, 2017 at 9:13am
 
Thanks, Ed. Smiley

No matter how old i get, i still enjoy learning stuff!!
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Ed Weber
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Re: New Open Air Vase
Reply #12 - Sep 24th, 2017 at 10:56am
 
I'll add one last thing.
It does not matter if the glue "held" during construction and turning, although those can be stressful on the joints. If the woods being used decide to move, especially in different directions, they will. Again, this is on a case by case basis, glue, joint type/size etc.

IMO the term joint failure has vastly different meanings to different people.
Some seem to think it has to mean catastrophic explosion or cracking, this is not necessarily true. To me, if I run a fingernail across the joint and can feel it, the joint has failed, or at least has begun to fail. This means I did something wrong during the construction process. 

Whether it has to do with moisture content, wood species, glue or grain direction and/or orientation, there are many ways in which a joint can fail.
I just urge people to stop and take a second to think about it "before' they commit. There's nothing worse than having a piece fail at the end of the process, after all the hard work has been put into it.
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Bruce L Jones
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Re: New Open Air Vase
Reply #13 - Oct 16th, 2017 at 1:36pm
 
I just noticed you had said something here Ed: So far on this project and the others I've done where I've turned the grains in many directions I've had no troubles w/ my glue seams, how ever that being said the wood I  have been using is very dry and stable and I always try to get a tight seam when gluing. Here's a photo of this piece in our home w/ flowers in the vase w/ a glass liner for water.

Bruce
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Steve Doerr
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Re: New Open Air Vase
Reply #14 - Oct 16th, 2017 at 6:08pm
 
Very nice Bruce.  It looks GREAT with the flowers.
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