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New Smart Lathes. (Read 1,189 times)
 
Len Layman
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Re: New Smart Lathes.
Reply #30 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 11:38am
 
All I know is that every machine, everything actually, in  my shop is "smart."  I say this based on the fact that they all have chips either in or on them.    Grin Grin Grin
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Ed Weber
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Re: New Smart Lathes.
Reply #31 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 12:16pm
 
Chips, I get it  Grin
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Ralph Fahringer
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Re: New Smart Lathes.
Reply #32 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:20pm
 
My recliner has chips in it, also!! Shocked

Hope the mice don't find them. Smiley
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Richard Pyle
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Re: New Smart Lathes.
Reply #33 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 8:25pm
 
I'm waiting for a comp screen on my lathe so I can order tools as I need while turning....or maybe hook it up to a 3D printer so I could print new tools as I go....hmmmmm
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Brad Barnhart
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Re: New Smart Lathes.
Reply #34 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 11:32pm
 
until my pockets get deeper, or win the lottery, I'll just stay with my hf lathe. I'm a beginner of sorts, but I don't need a computerized lathe to adjust torque & speed. How are you goin' to learn the feel if a computer is constantly makin' those changes for you? Don't folks listen to the sound of their machines? feel a vibration? Not fer me. I don't have a computerized machine in my shop. Let somebody else buy them.
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Jennifer Hasan
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Re: New Smart Lathes.
Reply #35 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 5:38am
 
Something to consider... manufacturers do not add features on a whim. Somewhere along the line, a lot of people told lathe manufacturers that "smart" features would influence a buying decision.

It would be interesting to know what type of market research they did to justify the risk and expense.
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Bruce Schoenleber
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Re: New Smart Lathes.
Reply #36 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 6:19am
 
"... manufacturers do not add features on a whim. ..."

I would argue this point,  marketing departments insist on it often; trying to grab attention with the next shiny thing.  "Smart" tools fit the "shiny" trinket category quite well. 

Then again, maybe it is just my "old and grumpy" showing.   Angry
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Ed Weber
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Re: New Smart Lathes.
Reply #37 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:39am
 
Bruce Schoenleber wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 6:19am:
"... manufacturers do not add features on a whim. ..."

I would argue this point,  marketing departments insist on it often; trying to grab attention with the next shiny thing.  "Smart" tools fit the "shiny" trinket category quite well.

Then again, maybe it is just my "old and grumpy" showing.   Angry

+1

Adding an electronic component to a tool is by itself not a bad thing, it's where they choose to add it.
If the electronic element was to inform only, the operator would retain control and could choose to do what he/she wants to do with the information provided by the sensors.
Instead they have opted (in some cases) to use the electronic element to take control away from the user. Not only does the operator not have the same decision making choice as before, he is not aware that there was a choice to be made.
(some elements are added in the name of safety but may have unintended performance or operating issues)
Sometimes making the tool "smarter" does have a tendency to dumb down the operator.
Adding an electronic or smart element to power tools is clearly in part an attempt to appeal to younger people but the majority of woodworkers are from the previous generations.
There is a skills gap and we are in a transitional period.
JMO
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Alistair Hancox
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Re: New Smart Lathes.
Reply #38 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 10:28am
 
Ed Weber wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:39am:
Instead they have opted (in some cases) to use the electronic element to take control away from the user. Not only does the operator not have the same decision making choice as before, he is not aware that there was a choice to be made.


Say what you want about the benefit to a turner of torque control. You're entitled to your opinion, however uninformed it is. Chris and I have both stated that there is no loss in tool feedback, as we both have lathes like this. You seem to have awfully strong feelings that you "lose something" by having a lathe that tries to maintain the speed you set it at. You don't. Two turners who have lathes like this have stated that. What amazes me about your views is that you don't have a lathe like this or have even used one! (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

Ed Weber wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:39am:
(some elements are added in the name of safety but may have unintended performance or operating issues)


So you don't like the idea of a lathe shutting off when it senses a violent catch or imbalance? Do you also have as strong feelings about ABS brakes because you can't "feel the road" as well? How about airbags?

I can see how someone would think that torque control is a gimmick. I can't agree with a notion that it's somehow unsafe or impedes learning. That's just factually wrong. I also can't fathom why anyone would be against an emergency shut-off. It's a positive technological improvement, irrespective of your "opinion".
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Ed Weber
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Re: New Smart Lathes.
Reply #39 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 11:49am
 

No I do not have a "smart lathe"
If you read my OP and follow up posts you will have probably answered all of the questions you've asked me.
I started this thread to ask others what they thought about these machines. I have put forth positions and/or opinions that may be contrary to yours, that's the whole point of this discussion.
I have many years of experience using a wide range of tools to rely on. Over the years I have seen trends, patterns, fads and so forth which led to the question.


I knew this would come up as a point of an argument.
So, in response to your automotive comments, I'll do my best to take them one at a time.
If you remember, anti-lock brakes used to be an option only on higher end cars,only once they proved themselves were widely adopted.
Air bags are designed to lessen your injury after an accident has happened, not prevent one.
Anyone who has a Takata airbag issue might disagree with your assertions.

The one point I'll make is that I never said torque control was a gimmick, I said it was a  marketing gimmick, this is not the same thing at all. Torque control is a real technology that has a great track record. The marketing gimmick comment was to point out that retail woodworking lathes don't really need it.
It's my opinion that the operator should know about aspects like wood density when turning.  As I've said the feedback one gets from the machine is essential. If the machine removes this feedback what have you learned about wood density as an example.

Let's keep this a friendly discussion, if you disagree that's fine but  try to keep things civil.
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Alistair Hancox
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Re: New Smart Lathes.
Reply #40 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 1:09pm
 
I have no doubt you have a vast amount of experience in a vast range of woodworking. If it came across like I was questioning that, then I apologize. I'm really not meaning to come across confrontational.


Ed Weber wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 11:49am:
It's my opinion that the operator should know about aspects like wood density when turning.  As I've said the feedback one gets from the machine is essential. If the machine removes this feedback what have you learned about wood density as an example.


The above statement you've made is 100% true. I agree with it completely. However, the line "If the machine removes this feedback..." is the whole reason I keep replying. IF.

It doesn't. There is no loss of feedback.
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Ed Weber
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Re: New Smart Lathes.
Reply #41 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 5:04pm
 
Alistair Hancox wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 1:09pm:
It doesn't. There is no loss of feedback.


I suppose this is the part I don't quite understand what you're getting at  Undecided
So the machine adjusts the torque but you can still feel it, I don't really see much of a problem with that.
I'm talking about newer "smart" lathes in general not just your Nova Galaxi.

There are other machines out there, like the Harvey lathe, which has the sensor adjusting at 2 Millisecond response time for Torque demand.
This is faster than any human can react or even feel in real time. By the time you felt the motor adjust it would have already done it, that's if you felt it at all.
If you're not aware anything has happened, then that would be a lack of feedback.
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Tony Rozendaal
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Re: New Smart Lathes.
Reply #42 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 5:14pm
 
Ed Weber wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 11:49am:
No I do not have a "smart lathe"
...
I started this thread to ask others what they thought about these machines.
...
I knew this would come up as a point of an argument.
...
Let's keep this a friendly discussion, if you disagree that's fine but  try to keep things civil.


In the most civil way possible, I disagree that this was ever intended to be a friendly discussion.
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Ed Weber
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Re: New Smart Lathes.
Reply #43 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 7:53pm
 
Tony, comments like that don't help anything, not to mention are personally offensive.
At WR we don't censor anyone's comments  but will not tolerate personal attacks.

Posting questions, hearing as many sides as possible, playing devils advocate from time to time is all part of a healthy discussion and how we learn as a group.
Whether members agree or disagree with me is not the point at all.

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Scott Ticknor
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Re: New Smart Lathes.
Reply #44 - Apr 26th, 2018 at 6:11pm
 
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register  we have come long way with technology. In 20 yrs he has turned 30000 bowls and platters
                                    
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« Last Edit: Apr 26th, 2018 at 6:15pm by Scott Ticknor »  
 
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