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Carbide Tools (Read 392 times)
 
Derik Mittag
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Carbide Tools
Jun 20th, 2018 at 8:38am
 
Hey folks,

I've seen carbide tipped tools before in videos but never given them much thought. Figured they would be good to have in my arsenal, especially for projects that would pressed for time.

Anyone have any insight, brands, opinions?
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Ed Weber
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Re: Carbide Tools
Reply #1 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 10:41am
 
Derik Mittag wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 8:38am:
Figured they would be good to have in my arsenal, especially for projects that would pressed for time.



I'm not sure what you're getting at.
Did you get the impression somewhere that replaceable tip carbide tools are faster in some way?

The main benefits of carbide tools are that you don't need to sharpen them and the carbide holds an edge longer that HSS. The speed in which they remove material is up to the user.

As to which are better I'll let others provide input as I do not use them.

Do keep in mind that not all carbide is created equally.
Carbide is a man made material and like any man made material, the quality can vary widely from different manufacturers.
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Glenn Jacobs
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Re: Carbide Tools
Reply #2 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 11:42am
 
I have carbide in my arsenal. One thing to consider is cost of replacement tips. At ~$20 each, and trying to sharpen yourself, tend to use dull units for way too long. They are not faster or any smoother finish in my opinion.

Glenn J.
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Derik Mittag
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Re: Carbide Tools
Reply #3 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 11:43am
 
Ed Weber wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 10:41am:
Derik Mittag wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 8:38am:
Figured they would be good to have in my arsenal, especially for projects that would pressed for time.



I'm not sure what you're getting at.
Did you get the impression somewhere that replaceable tip carbide tools are faster in some way?

The main benefits of carbide tools are that you don't need to sharpen them and the carbide holds an edge longer that HSS. The speed in which they remove material is up to the user.

As to which are better I'll let others provide input as I do not use them.

Do keep in mind that not all carbide is created equally.
Carbide is a man made material and like any man made material, the quality can vary widely from different manufacturers.


It's exactly what I'm getting at. I won't have to spend time sharpening and therefore be quicker on completion
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John Grace
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Re: Carbide Tools
Reply #4 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 12:47pm
 
Derik Mittag wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 11:43am:
It's exactly what I'm getting at. I won't have to spend time sharpening and therefore be quicker on completion


With the proper set-up and technique, sharpening a gouge takes but a few seconds.  Time saved in not sharpening will be spent several-fold in extra sanding.  It's nearly impossible to get as smooth a finish with carbide as HSS.  some are dismissive of carbides but they're a tool that serves a purpose...just know the pros and cons of each.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Carbide Tools
Reply #5 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 2:45pm
 
John Grace wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 12:47pm:
With the proper set-up and technique, sharpening a gouge takes but a few seconds.


With a sharpening system, (grinder, CBN wheels, etc) you only pay once.
With disposable inserts, you continue to pay whenever you need a new sharp cutting edge.

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Derik Mittag
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Re: Carbide Tools
Reply #6 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 9:16pm
 
Ed Weber wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 2:45pm:
John Grace wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 12:47pm:
With the proper set-up and technique, sharpening a gouge takes but a few seconds.


With a sharpening system, (grinder, CBN wheels, etc) you only pay once.
With disposable inserts, you continue to pay whenever you need a new sharp cutting edge.



CBN wheels are pretty pricey, no doubt better in the long run.

I suppose I figured carbide tools could remove more stock
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robo_hippy
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Re: Carbide Tools
Reply #7 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 10:00pm
 
Most carbide tools are intended to be used as scrapers. The exceptions are like the Hunter tools which are cupped. They do great shear scraping, and to me would be best used in boxes. For scrapers, where the cutting edge is at 90 degrees to the spin of the wood, or flat on the tool rest, they are a very efficient tool for heavy roughing, well, except most of them are pretty small, which is why so many turners find them easier to use than the larger bowl scrapers. I can hog out a bowl faster with a scraper than just about any one can with a gouge, and part of that is from years of production turning. Look at my clip in the video section here, 'Scary Scrapers' which will tell you a few things. For bowl turning, and all turning, you need a number of tools.

robo hippy
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Richard Shelby
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Re: Carbide Tools
Reply #8 - Jun 21st, 2018 at 6:03am
 
I use my carbide Ci3 "mini scraper" every day, mostly for roughing bowls. More turning, less sharpening. By rotating the insert you can turn 10-15 bowls before needing to replace.  Carbide is usefull when turning embellished wood with epoxy/stone inlays. Some stone, like turquoise, is hard enough to dull a good gouge within seconds. Carbide can take it down to a level where abrasives can take ovceer. Inserts cost $3.50 each when you buy them in bulk.
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John Grace
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Re: Carbide Tools
Reply #9 - Jun 21st, 2018 at 7:11am
 
robo_hippy wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 10:00pm:
I can hog out a bowl faster with a scraper than just about any one can with a gouge


This raises a question I've thought of before.  Due to the scraping presentation...isn't the rate stock removal also relative to the amount of HP on your lathe?  As in, the smaller the HP the lighter and lighter the touch needs to be on a scraper whereas that performance curve may be less with the slicing action of a gouge?  thoughts?
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Ed Weber
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Re: Carbide Tools
Reply #10 - Jun 21st, 2018 at 8:56am
 
John Grace wrote on Jun 21st, 2018 at 7:11am:
This raises a question I've thought of before.  Due to the scraping presentation...isn't the rate stock removal also relative to the amount of HP on your lathe?


You're correct John.
Lathe HP, moisture content, and species of wood all come into play.

Not being a production turner, I feel no need to hog out a bowl as fast as possible.
I use a sharp bowl gouge and it takes very little time if I know the intended shape I'm going for. It takes a bit longer if I'm deciding on a shape or form etc.
We are only talking a matter of a few minutes here or there, not production speed but plenty quick enough for most of us.
As far as removing more wood, again I would say that depends on the operator.
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Don Stephan
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Re: Carbide Tools
Reply #11 - Jun 21st, 2018 at 9:16am
 
Definitely there was a learning curve, not only with freehand sharpening but also with lathe tool presentation to get clean cuts, but with the Robo Rest I can change the platform angle literally in 3 seconds and touch up the edge on a skew, parting tool,  scraper, spindle gouge, various angles and grinds on 4 bowl gouges, all using blue 8" grinding wheels, each in less than ten seconds.
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« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2018 at 9:17am by Don Stephan »  
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robo_hippy
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Re: Carbide Tools
Reply #12 - Jun 21st, 2018 at 9:20am
 
John, I think that is a point I make in my Scary Scraper video. No matter what tool you use, how fast you can be depends on sharpness, how much  cutting edge you are putting into the wood, how hard you are pushing, horse power, the wood, speed, and how far off the tool rest you are hanging. Some times it is long ribbons, some times angel hair, some times dust. Depends... Oh, how 'experienced' you are too. From Will Rogers, "Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement."

I find the comment about 'more time turning and less time sharpening' shall we say curious... The time I spend sharpening my Big Ugly tool is probably less than the time it takes to rotate the carbide tip. Say, maybe 5 to 10 seconds max...

robo hippy
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« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2018 at 9:22am by robo_hippy »  
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Richard Shelby
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Re: Carbide Tools
Reply #13 - Jun 21st, 2018 at 6:50pm
 
I'm going to make a "big ugly" but my local welding shop doesn't have sheet silver solder.  Looks like a tool I would use.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Carbide Tools
Reply #14 - Jun 22nd, 2018 at 9:48am
 
Richard Shelby wrote on Jun 21st, 2018 at 6:50pm:
I'm going to make a "big ugly" but my local welding shop doesn't have sheet silver solder.  Looks like a tool I would use.



It's not an uncommon product, you can get a piece on Amazon or a dozen other places.
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