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Boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits (Read 658 times)
 
Arlin Eastman
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Re: Boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits
Reply #15 - Jun 23rd, 2019 at 6:14pm
 
I mix BLO, Zinnger Blonde shellac, DNA, and Wipe on Poly mixture on my stuff all the time and shines up really nicely.
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Arlin Eastman
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Re: Boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits
Reply #16 - Jun 23rd, 2019 at 6:27pm
 
Mike Nathal wrote on Jun 23rd, 2019 at 6:13am:
+1 on getting a good book on finishes.  I have not read Jeff Jewitt's book but highly recommend Understanding Wood Finishing by Bob Flexner



Yep for me Bob is the man of finishes  Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
Jeff is a close second.  I met him many years ago before he was famous and we talked all kinds of paints and finishes.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits
Reply #17 - Jun 23rd, 2019 at 7:38pm
 
Arlin Eastman wrote on Jun 23rd, 2019 at 6:14pm:
I mix BLO, Zinnger Blonde shellac, DNA, and Wipe on Poly mixture on my stuff all the time and shines up really nicely.


May I ask, where on earth did you come up with that recipe and what ratios do you use?
The reason I ask is simple.

Shellac, film forming finish, Top coat dries by evaporation of alcohol.

DNA solvent

Boliled Linseed Oil, drying oil, penetrating type of finish
Cures by cross-linking polymerization (where it comes in contact with air)

Wipe on Poly, film forming finish, top coat.
A thinned version of standard Polyurethane which dries by cross-linking polymerization just like BLO only harder and faster, Solvent is mineral spirits.

So, in a nut shell you are mixing a drying oil, BLO
An alcohol based top coat, Shellac
Some DNA which will take the Zinnser shellac from a 3lb cut out of the can and dilute it
And a thinned mineral spirit based top coat, WOP

So basically you've added a thin cut of shellac to a home made Danish oil.  Huh

I truly don't understand what you are trying to achieve with this mixture, also I have never heard of anyone mixing shellac and polyurethane.

Could you please clarify


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Ron Sardo
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Re: Boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits
Reply #18 - Jun 24th, 2019 at 7:02pm
 
Micheal Gipson wrote on Jun 21st, 2019 at 12:27am:
A customer asked me to use boiled linseed oil mixed with mineral spirits on their project. I must say I'm pretty Blown Away with the results. The fact that it's highly waterproof and in some cases fire resistant, I can see myself putting it on anything that isn't food grade. Lol. But before I go pedal-to-the-metal into this finish, I figured I better ask the the people who have had more experience than I.


Boiled linseed oil was used for generations as a waterproof finish on rifle stocks. Back in the day they would hand rub it to produce enough heat that help cure the oil and it was believed this is what made it waterproof.

FWIW most decent oil finishes contain BLO. That's not to say there aren't better finishes available today. Especially since many commercial products substituted soy bean oil in place of BLO.

During WWII the Americans learned of the finish the Chinese used to water proof their boats (Junks) and brought back the seeds of the tree to cultivate it here is the US.

Its called China oil or Tung Oil
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Robert Fischer
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Re: Boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits
Reply #19 - Jun 25th, 2019 at 12:26pm
 
Ron Sardo wrote on Jun 24th, 2019 at 7:02pm:
During WWII the Americans learned of the finish the Chinese used to water proof their boats (Junks) and brought back the seeds of the tree to cultivate it here is the US.   Its called China oil or Tung Oil

Well, I suppose "China Oil" was a better nickname than "Junk Oil"!   Wink

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Charlie Boardman
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Re: Boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits
Reply #20 - Jun 25th, 2019 at 3:05pm
 
If anyone's interested...
Tung oil nuts/trees were imported by the USDA about 1905 on an experimental basis.
A pressing plant was erected  in Gainesville, Florida about 1928.
150,000 pounds of oil was produced in the U.S. in 1932, in 1944 10,000,000 pounds of tung oil was produced in this country.
At one time tung oil was a pretty lucrative crop along the gulf coast.

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Micheal Gipson
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Re: Boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits
Reply #21 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 12:10am
 
So ED Weber, the only mix of 2 finishes that can be 100% trusted is the bees wax and (your food grade finish of choice, mine just happens to be plane old mineral oil)? At least for efficiency sake over preference. (Not trying to step on toes here lol)

The way you explain it makes it seem more like a waste of materials. At least for the purpose of making a long lasting finish without applying a lot.

Is there a mix that goes together that's both efficient and not wasteful of materials?
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Ed Weber
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Re: Boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits
Reply #22 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 8:59am
 
Micheal Gipson wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 12:10am:
Is there a mix that goes together that's both efficient and not wasteful of materials?

It depends on what you are finishing and why. The product dictates what finish you apply to it. Are you looking for color, clarity, durability, a combination or something else? Some things are fine simply flooded with danish oil and other items may take multiple coats over a period of weeks, it depends.

The finishes i mentioned are sacrificing durability and yes cost, for speed and ease. It's up to you to balance what's more important to you.
Don't simply listen to me, I don't have any say in what anyone uses and why. I just try to point out what most people overlook.
Take the 1:1:1 mixtures
You are essentially adding 1 part, 33% oil to the recipe. Your remaining 66% shellac solution, 1 part DNA mixed with 1 part shellac. These two parts of the mixture are is comprised of a >1-1/2lb cut of waxed shellac or a >1lb cut of de-waxed shellac, depending on which Zinnser product you start with.
This is what's typically called a wash coat of shellac and you would need about 6 coats to give it any chance of protection. Why do people use them, they are quick and easy but IMO better off being used on items you sit on a shelf and don't touch.

Some people just like to mix their own finishes, that's great but you need to know the basics or your finish will fail in time. Mixing incompatible chemicals, applying only a thin coat or trying to apply too many types of product at once may work in the short term but finishes like these are destined to fail. This is not opinion this is science.

Speaking only for myself, my projects aren't complete until the finish is cured, it's part (possibly the most important part) of the entire process. I don't take short cuts on finishing. I choose quality over speed & ease.
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Don Stephan
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Re: Boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits
Reply #23 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 7:12pm
 
Michael

Glad you are comfortable asking questions.  The discussions benefit all of us.

My personal opinion is that since wax may reduce adhesion if covered with anything else, since a thick layer of wax is likely to show fingerprints and smudges, and since wax wears off quickly, it offers very little value as part of a combo finish.  A thin layer of buffed wax can make a finish look much better, but is the customer being shortchanged since the wax and the look won't last long if the piece is being used and washed (utility bowl)?

But that is just my personal opinion.

Unfortunately I'm not comfortable selling a piece likely to be used regularly with a quick and easy finish, because I don't think those finishes offer the durability I would want if I was the customer.
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Micheal Gipson
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Re: Boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits
Reply #24 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 8:40pm
 
That makes sense. I guess in this case I'll just have to deal with it because it's what the customer wants. I'll do some more reading and get my own opinion that I can post on here when the next youngster decides to ask some questions. Hahaha. In the meantime, I'll keep being the youngster I am and ask questions. I'm just thankful I get to ask questions rather than learning the hard way with a customers order.

I can't remember if it was on here that I read it or not but someone said that BLO doesn't cure. If that's true, wouldn't that make other finishes going on top of it difficult? Like if I were to use boiled linseed oil or regular linseed oil, let it dry and then put shellac over it or polyurethane. Would that mess up the Finish? As it was stated some finishes will eat through the others so is it pointless to layer finishes that way?
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Louie Powell
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Re: Boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits
Reply #25 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 5:53am
 
Micheal Gipson wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 8:40pm:
I can't remember if it was on here that I read it or not but someone said that BLO doesn't cure. If that's true, wouldn't that make other finishes going on top of it difficult? Like if I were to use boiled linseed oil or regular linseed oil, let it dry and then put shellac over it or polyurethane. Would that mess up the Finish? As it was stated something in his will eat through the others so is it pointless to layer finishes that way?


You don't want to use raw linseed oil because while it will eventually cure, it takes a very long time.  But BLO contains additional components (a 'pinch of nutmeg') that causes it to cure more rapidly. 

You may be confusing BLO with mineral oil.  It does not cure and can interfere with subsequent finishes.  Likewise, waxes can prevent subsequent finishes from adhering. 

There are compatibility issues that cause some combinations of finishes to not work well, but shellac can sometimes be used as a barrier between otherwise incompatible finishes.

Don't understand that last sentence.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits
Reply #26 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 9:22am
 
I will go back to the Original Topic of BLO and Mineral spirits, the Por's and Con's.

There is nothing wrong with thinning BLO with a solvent so that it is able to penetrate into the wood pores easier and possibly further. The issue is that this is not a very durable or protective finish. For the maximum amount of protection, the surface of the item must be flooded with the mixture so that as much oil is absorbed as possible before it begins to cure. Then you need to wipe away the excess or it will become gummy on the surface. When the solvent has evaporated what's left is only the BLO. While it does enhance the grain, it offers little in the way of water resistance or surface protection. Even when BLO is fully cured is still retains some elasticity. This quality can be good if used in the proper setting where wood is prone to movement, like an outdoor project but it needs protection in the form of a top coat of some kind.

For interior items, much of the same holds true. BLO will enhance the grain but offers little surface protection. In this situation you need to protect it with some sort of top coat best suited for the items intended use.

There are several classic examples like gun stocks and cricket bats that traditionally use linseed oil as protection. The main difference is that these items are personal and their owners usually maintain them meticulously. this is not the norm.

As I posted earlier, BLO is a good product but not the best as a stand alone. It is far better as an initial penetrating coat to enhance grain or as an ingredient in a finish.

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Ed Weber
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Re: Boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits
Reply #27 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 9:51am
 
In the effort of full disclosure

I use quite a lot of a wood preservative at my house for exterior projects. The product I use is Linseed oil based with a mineral spirits solvent and proprietary (trade secret) additives. It's these 10-20% of unknown ingredients, like UV protection, mildew inhibitors, etc that all add to the linseed oil to enhance it's properties.
Now I could easily mix up some Linseed oil and mineral spirits but it would not perform as well or even close to the retail product. I am basically paying for the unknown ingredients that make the basic products perform better than they would by themselves.

No affiliation, just a consumer.
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Ron Sardo
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Re: Boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits
Reply #28 - Jul 15th, 2019 at 8:38am
 
Ed Weber wrote on Jul 10th, 2019 at 9:51am:
It's these 10-20% of unknown ingredients, like UV protection, mildew inhibitors, etc that all add to the linseed oil to enhance it's properties.


Zinc oxide and titanium dioxide for UV inhibitors (think suntan lotion)

Cobalt Drier to aid drying and to inhibit mold

Japan Drier to aid drying.

Since many of the big name brands switched to soybean oil from linseed oil and that soybean oil never dries more  japan or cobalt drier is used today in finishes than a decade or two.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits
Reply #29 - Jul 15th, 2019 at 9:09am
 
Ron Sardo wrote on Jul 15th, 2019 at 8:38am:
Since many of the big name brands switched to soybean oil from linseed oil

Sssshhhh, they didn't tell anyone  Lips Sealed
That's a whole other topic  Grin

Ron Sardo wrote on Jul 15th, 2019 at 8:38am:
more  japan or cobalt drier is used today in finishes than a decade or two.


So you think you're being nice to the planet by using soy oil, really you're having to use more VOC's to achieve the same thing as you used to when using linseed oil.

I'll add one more thing about linseed oil.
Linseed oil does cure and does dry. When it's fully cured and dry it is still pliable, this is what gets confused when discussing this product. Just because something isn't hard doesn't mean it's not fully cured. This is one of the benefits of Linseed oil, to move with the wood.


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