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Which table saw blade (Read 415 times)
 
Robert Evans
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Which table saw blade
Jun 2nd, 2020 at 12:10pm
 
I'm still learning all the techniques of segmented turning.   I'm still getting more tearout on my segments than I want.  I spend a lot of time sanding all the fuzzies off the segments prior to gluing.   I'm using the Wedgie Sled and the table saw.  What table saw blades are best for minimizing tearout on small segments?  I don't mind spending money on the right tool.
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Chris Brock
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #1 - Jun 2nd, 2020 at 12:57pm
 
Does your sled support the piece on both sides of the blade? If your sled is only on one side of the blade, the piece you cut off is unsupported. While you can improve the situation with a high tooth count blade, I think the unsupported side of the cut will almost always have some tear-out.

Just my 2 cents.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #2 - Jun 2nd, 2020 at 1:00pm
 
We are currently having this same discussion at the Segmented Woodturners website.
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Most people seem to go for either Freud or Forrest blades. but the brand itself isn't that important, just the cut it leaves behind.

Any quality blade company has several styles for just about any need.
I use more than one but there are combination and/or general purpose blades if you don't want or need to change blades often.
Some examples
I use a thin kerf blade designed for sliding miters saws Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
On my table saw I usually use the full kerf Ultimate Cutoff blade and the Glue Line Rip blade, for segments and staves respectively
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Much of the decision depends on your saw/s and what you're cutting. Wood species, thickness, rip, crosscut, etc. You can usually narrow down your choice to a few pretty quickly.
Hope that helped.
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Robert Evans
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #3 - Jun 2nd, 2020 at 1:42pm
 
I just got a Forrest 40T WWII blade that I'm going to try.  I have also seen where a ramp attached to the zero clearance insert will direct the segment away from the blade.  If I leave a short flat section on top of the ramp, this might help support the fibers while they are being cut.  If this doesn't work, I'll see about getting one of the Freud crosscut blades.

Maple seems to be the worst but I also get tear out on my Walnut.  I'm just trying to reduce the sanding time on 400+ segments.  That gets old.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #4 - Jun 2nd, 2020 at 2:24pm
 
Robert Evans wrote on Jun 2nd, 2020 at 1:42pm:
I have also seen where a ramp attached to the zero clearance insert will direct the segment away from the blade.  If I leave a short flat section on top of the ramp, this might help support the fibers while they are being cut.  If this doesn't work, I'll see about getting one of the Freud crosscut blades.

It definitely helps, it's no different than having a full sled, support is support.

Maple is very susceptible to burning, a smooth (consistent) feed rate is usually required.
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Glenn Jacobs
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #5 - Jun 3rd, 2020 at 7:05am
 
To help prevent tearout, there should not be much clearance around the blade in the sled.

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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #6 - Jun 3rd, 2020 at 12:27pm
 
I haven't gotten into segmenting, at least not yet. I did build some furniture. Most of the time I have one of the Freud combination blades on the table saw for just about anything. I do have one of the Forrest blades as well. Funny thing about it is that I took it to a local 'oldtimer' for sharpening. It came back sharper than when it was fresh out of the package. Same with the Freud blades I was using. Too much tear out would suggest a dull blade. I would expect that any cut that is not square/90 degrees would require a stop block and/or clamp to keep it from 'creeping' as you cut. Just finger pressure would not be adequate, no matter how strong of a grip you have...

robo hippy
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Ed Weber
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #7 - Jun 3rd, 2020 at 3:26pm
 
Reed's post reminded me of another thing.
When or if you get your blade sharpened, it's my experience that you should always use a factory authorized service specific to your brand.
Many of the newer blades have very complex blade tooth geometries that some sharpening services can not handle. Some may simply return a blade they can not sharpen, some may sharpen it with what they have which is not ideal.
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Robert Evans
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #8 - Jun 3rd, 2020 at 7:38pm
 
I built a new slide for my zero clearance insert.  It supports the segment about 1/8" on the off cut side.  It seems to help some but maple still tears out.   I installed a new Forrest WWII blade and it sailed through 8/4 cherry with no burn marks.  It's a full kerf combination blade and seems to cut well. Smiley

I guess I'll just get me a comfortable stool and continue sanding fuzzys off of segments. Undecided
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Paul Haus
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #9 - Jun 3rd, 2020 at 8:15pm
 
I'll throw one of those hidden gems out I stumbled onto a few years back.  I have probably 8-10 good quality expensive blades for my saw.  I was cutting up some salvaged lumber and didn't want to risk them.  I was at HF and saw a 60 tooth blade (IIRC) on their shelves and decided to give it a try.  It looked good and was cheap enough if I hit something I wouldn't feel bad about it.  Funny thing is it ripped and crosscut up 2"+ hard maple and other woods and gives a pretty good cut just like my high priced blades.  I think it only cost $15-$20 so i planned on it being a throwaway blade.  Funny thing is it's still on the saw and still cutting just fine.  I haven't hit anything with it, but if I do I likely will just get another one.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #10 - Jun 3rd, 2020 at 8:16pm
 
Robert Evans wrote on Jun 3rd, 2020 at 7:38pm:
It seems to help some but maple still tears out.   I installed a new Forrest WWII blade and it sailed through 8/4 cherry with no burn marks.


Are you ripping, crosscutting?
What type of saw?
Where is the blade height set?

Every piece of wood is unique. you may have gotten one of those pieces that just  won't cooperate no matter what.
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Robert Evans
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #11 - Jun 3rd, 2020 at 11:25pm
 
Ed Weber wrote on Jun 3rd, 2020 at 8:16pm:
Robert Evans wrote on Jun 3rd, 2020 at 7:38pm:
It seems to help some but maple still tears out.   I installed a new Forrest WWII blade and it sailed through 8/4 cherry with no burn marks.

Are you ripping, crosscutting?
What type of saw?
Where is the blade height set?

Every piece of wood is unique. you may have gotten one of those pieces that just  won't cooperate no matter what.

The tearout comes from crosscutting the segments.They are about 1/2 thick.  I've got the blade pretty high, thinking that the cutting force would be more down into the table.  I'm using a Rigid TS2424 contractor saw with a cast iron top and 1 1/2 hp. 
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Ed Weber
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #12 - Jun 4th, 2020 at 8:44am
 
You may just have one of those pieces.
Sometimes sanding is the only option unfortunately.
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #13 - Jun 4th, 2020 at 10:37am
 
Hmm, I do know there are negative rake blades for some cross cutting, which most of us never use, and many probably don't even know about. I think they are more commonly used for laminate type stuff...

I had forgotten about blade height when cross cutting. Seem to remember that you don't want the blade as high as you can get it because when the teeth exit the wood they are moving more down. I always keep mine maybe 1/4 inch at most above what I am cutting.

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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #14 - Jun 4th, 2020 at 11:39am
 
robo_hippy wrote on Jun 4th, 2020 at 10:37am:
I do know there are negative rake blades for some cross cutting, which most of us never use


These are typically on Radial arm saws and Sliding miter saws due to the tendency of the blade to grab to wood too aggressively.
I do use them and find they work great.
You're right about the blade height. Raising to blade helps move the angle of cut which is beneficial when ripping. It doesn't have much, if any effect when crosscutting.
Today's crosscutting blades typically have either scoring teeth or a high ATB (alternative tooth bevel) design which reduces splintering.
Like the one in my photo
I would need to see where and how the tear out is happening to make any judgement.
Is it on the bottom or the back? How is the piece supported and so on.
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #15 - Jun 5th, 2020 at 9:48am
 
Yea, where is it tearing out? With a cross cut sled, you want zero clearance for the blade, and zero clearance on the back side of the cut/in the vertical part of the fence. I would guess that for segmenting, most of the back side of the tear out would be turned off, so maybe not a big issue.

robo hippy
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Robert Evans
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #16 - Jun 5th, 2020 at 10:13am
 
The tearout is on the back side of the segment.  It's turning off so it's not a finishing issue.  The problem is that when gluing up the rings, any sliver of tearout could affect the segments closing to make a perfect ring.  There can be no gaps between the segments and a single misplaced sliver of wood can cause problems.

It appears that this is mostly on maple.  I don't have nearly as much trouble with walnut or cherry. 

I use the wedgie sled and there is no support on the back of the segment when cutting.  It's just hanging off the side of the sled.  The only support is on the longer stick of wood on the wedgie sled.

Sanding 100's of little pieces of wood gets monotonous but I guess that's part of the game.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #17 - Jun 5th, 2020 at 11:19am
 
Robert Evans wrote on Jun 5th, 2020 at 10:13am:
I use the wedgie sled and there is no support on the back of the segment when cutting.

Well, there's your problem.

Having a fence that spans the blade, supporting both the stock and the cut segment will usually eliminate any blow out on the back side.
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Don Stephan
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #18 - Jun 5th, 2020 at 7:14pm
 
Sometimes a tight wrap or two of 3M blue masking tape will reduce chipping.
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Re: Which table saw blade
Reply #19 - Jun 6th, 2020 at 10:29am
 
Some times pushing the piece through the cut at a slower speed can reduce tear out. Not so slow that you burn the wood though...

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