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Transition (Read 181 times)
 
Jim Selby
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jacksonville, Florida, USA
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excelsior mini, colt sp350
Transition
Jul 29th, 2020 at 11:46am
 
I know it seems obvious to most but as a learning turner, I some time's experience significant catches when transition from the bottom if bowls to the side trying to make a smooth appearance. I am never sure what angle on my gouge to get this smooth and not wind up with a catch
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robo_hippy
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Eugene, OR, USA
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Re: Transition
Reply #1 - Jul 29th, 2020 at 12:12pm
 
Well, short of having a play date in my shop, I have to guess.... Probably main reason people get catches in the transition is trying to make that curve with the wrong gouge. Add to that having your flutes straight up rather than being rolled on the sides. When going down the sides of a bowl, I always have my gouge rolled over on the side, and that will keep the wings from catching.

On a shallow plate or platter, there is very little transition. On a bowl that is 8 inch diameter, and 3 or 4 inches deep, you have much more transition area to go through, and if you have steep sides then that transition can be very abrupt. To get through this you may need specialized tools. If you have a gouge with a 60 degree bevel, that will get you through most transition areas. If you have a more shallow bevel angle, I prefer the 40/40 grind, then that bevel angle can not make it through the transition without the cutting coming off the bevel, and that can cause big catches. My favorite tools are a 40/40 gouge for the outside and the inside wall of a bowl, and then for the transition, I switch to about a 70 degree bevel tool that has a ) shaped nose. Roll it on the side and gently push through the transition and across the bottom.

If you only have one gouge, then a 60 degree bevel will do a fairly good job of just about every thing on bowls. If you have a couple of gouges, then the specialized grinds do a better job of going through the transition.

Side note, on all gouges for the inside of a bowl, grind away at least half of the lower part of the bevel, and I make mine round. A sharp bevel heel will actually push the gouge into the cut rather than letting you feed it into the cut, and that sharp heel can leave marks.

robo hippy
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Al Wasser
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Pueblo West, CO, Colorado, USA
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Re: Transition
Reply #2 - Jul 29th, 2020 at 1:05pm
 
The other thing to watch is the design of the bowl.  People tend to start with straight vertical sides and a flat bottom. This often referred to as a dog dish.  The other common rookie design is flared straight sides and flat bottom. This is called a flower pot.  These are poor designs and the transition area is difficult to work.  If the sides curve gently into a bottom the transition is much easier to deal  with.  Get someone to coach you will help a lot.
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Ed Weber
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Wilton, California, USA
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Re: Transition
Reply #3 - Jul 29th, 2020 at 2:49pm
 
Jim Selby wrote on Jul 29th, 2020 at 11:46am:
I know it seems obvious to most but as a learning turner, I some time's experience significant catches when transition from the bottom if bowls to the side trying to make a smooth appearance. I am never sure what angle on my gouge to get this smooth and not wind up with a catch



Just to be clear, so I don't misinterpret anything.
You wrote from, the bottom to the side.
When cutting this area, you should be cutting down the side, through the transition and accross the bottom.
If you are moving the cut accross the bottom toward the transition, towards the side, the chance of a catch is very high. This would be an uphill cut (against the grain)
If this isn't the case please disregard
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Chris Neilan
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Re: Transition
Reply #4 - Jul 29th, 2020 at 9:12pm
 
Ed Weber wrote on Jul 29th, 2020 at 2:49pm:
Jim Selby wrote on Jul 29th, 2020 at 11:46am:
I know it seems obvious to most but as a learning turner, I some time's experience significant catches when transition from the bottom if bowls to the side trying to make a smooth appearance. I am never sure what angle on my gouge to get this smooth and not wind up with a catch



Just to be clear, so I don't misinterpret anything.
You wrote from, the bottom to the side.
When cutting this area, you should be cutting down the side, through the transition and accross the bottom.
If you are moving the cut accross the bottom toward the transition, towards the side, the chance of a catch is very high. This would be an uphill cut (against the grain)
If this isn't the case please disregard


Thats what I thought as well... wow, i must be learning!
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Don Stephan
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Re: Transition
Reply #5 - Jul 30th, 2020 at 6:54pm
 
Jim

All of the entries in the video library here were previewed, so unlike Youtube and such there are no demonstrations of unsafe or wierd practices.  You might consider looking at some of them.

For practice, I would suggest getting at a big box store a relatively knot free 2x6 made from SPF (spruce-pine-fir).  Cut into 5 1/2" squares and start making bowls.  Very inexpensive so no need to worry about poor results.  Turn a couple with very large radius transition, then gradually decrease radius to gain muscle memory, tool control, and confidence.  At some point you will understand comments about relieving the bevel heel (a secondary bevel) on the spindle gouge.
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Jim Selby
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jacksonville, Florida, USA
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excelsior mini, colt sp350
Re: Transition
Reply #6 - Jul 31st, 2020 at 9:01pm
 
When I wrote this I said I was a beginner, I have been making bowls for about a year and a half. I have made lots of projects and am a member of Northeast Florida Woodturners. I have watched lots of videos on YouTube and from the AAW and have really seen no one address this problem. Guess I gave wrong impression of my experience.
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Ed Weber
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Wilton, California, USA
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Re: Transition
Reply #7 - Aug 1st, 2020 at 9:45am
 
Not at all Jim, yours is a common problem.
Many people with more experience thn you still struggle with the transition area.
My point was to cut down the wall, through the transition and accross the bottom, not the other direction. this is just the first step to hopefully avoid catches but there is more to it.
There is no quick answer and no single correct way to do it.
I use a bowl gouge.
Starting at the rim of the bowl with the flute aiming at 3:00, I cut down the wall. Just before I begin the transition area I start to rotate my gouge from the 3:00 position toward the 12:00 position. where I will eventually end up. As I cut through the transition area, I am slowly rotating the tool. Halfway through the flute is between 1:00 & 2:00 and as I exit, the flute is aiming straight up as I blend it in with the bottom.

That's just how I do it, others use multiple tools like scrapers and gouges ground for cutting the bottom of the bowl. There are dozens of factors involved that make this a particularly difficult area to conquer.
Hope fully some other members can share how they go about it
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Rick Caron
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Re: Transition
Reply #8 - Aug 1st, 2020 at 4:12pm
 
When thru   that  have to  very  slow  and very litr cuts
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Ralph Fahringer
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Re: Transition
Reply #9 - Aug 1st, 2020 at 4:58pm
 
Rick, did you try to post that from your cell phone?? Grin

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