Woodturner's Resource
Woodturner's Resource  
  • Featured Artist    • Websites   Support Wr
Tutorials, Projects & Tips   • Event Calendar   • Tool and Book Store
  Home Page Forum HelpSearch Map TPT Resources LoginRegister
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
How long does it take? (Read 542 times)
 
Robert Hayward
WR Addict
*****
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 713

Tampa area, Florida, USA
Tampa area
Florida
USA

Gender: male

3520b
Re: How long does it take?
Reply #15 - Feb 16th, 2021 at 6:22pm
 
I am the farthest one could be from being a production turner. I do occasional/hobby turning. With that said I did lean forward in my chair when he put that blank on the screw while it was still square. With a bandsaw a couple steps away to boot.  Huh
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
chris lawrence
Senior Member
****
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 343

JACKSON, New Jersey, USA
JACKSON
New Jersey
USA

Re: How long does it take?
Reply #16 - Feb 16th, 2021 at 6:42pm
 
Ed Weber wrote on Feb 16th, 2021 at 3:55pm:
Cutting off the corners makes a huge difference IMO
Not only is it safer, it makes life easier on you and the tools.
About 10 seconds on the bandsaw will save a lot of grief when turning.
I'm no production turner by a long shot and I could tell you that  Roll Eyes


But without the corners you can't make the fingers in the fan sounds. Grin
Back to top
  

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
WWW Black-Label-Woodworks-1706061859611577  
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Administrator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 8,440

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: How long does it take?
Reply #17 - Feb 16th, 2021 at 7:24pm
 
Smiley
That made me laugh, thanks
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
robo_hippy
WR Addict
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,465

Eugene, OR, USA
Eugene, OR
USA

Re: How long does it take?
Reply #18 - Feb 17th, 2021 at 12:13pm
 
Check out the video of Richard Raffen bowl turning that Fine woodworking did some time ago. He puts one on the screw chuck at a higher speed.... It is a practiced skill and even then, I wouldn't do it... Got away from that and drill a recess with a forstner bit to expand my chucks into. Much better, and I use the same chuck for inside and/or outside...

robo hippy
Back to top
  
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Ralph Fahringer
WR Addict
*****
Online


I'm the "Burly" Man!!

Posts: 1,607

Ellsworth, Maine, USA
Ellsworth
Maine
USA

Gender: male

PM3520b
Re: How long does it take?
Reply #19 - Feb 17th, 2021 at 2:34pm
 
Wow!! Remember when we used to put baseball cards in the spokes of our bicycles?? Smiley

Most likely the reason so many cards are rare and expensive now. Shocked
Back to top
  

Originality is the art of concealing your source.
 
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Administrator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 8,440

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: How long does it take?
Reply #20 - Feb 17th, 2021 at 3:56pm
 
robo_hippy wrote on Feb 17th, 2021 at 12:13pm:
He puts one on the screw chuck at a higher speed.... It is a practiced skill and even then, I wouldn't do it...

That's the very clip I saw all those years ago that gave me a bad taste for RR and production turners as being not very good teachers, speaking only for myself. I've got 15 years of experience under my belt since I first saw that clip and I still feel the same way about it.
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
I always look at it like this.
It's a safety issue. Just because you didn't get injured doesn't mean it's a safe thing to do. If you do think it's safe (and it mat be safe for you), well that's fine but don't show others your bad habits.

Ralph Fahringer wrote on Feb 17th, 2021 at 2:34pm:
Wow!! Remember when we used to put baseball cards in the spokes of our bicycles?? Smiley

Most likely the reason so many cards are rare and expensive now.


I never considered that Ralph  Undecided
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Don Stephan
WR Addict
*****
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 2,510

Cincinnati, Ohio, Ohio, USA
Cincinnati, Ohio
Ohio
USA

Gender: male
Re: How long does it take?
Reply #21 - Feb 17th, 2021 at 7:00pm
 
Just watched that section of the Raffan bowl turning video again, I'm guessing the lathe was running somewhere 300-400 RPM when he fed the blank onto the screw chuck.  Like Reed and Ed, not something I would be comfortable trying.  But unlike Ed I find the video extremely useful as it shows what proper technique and tool should be capable of, and different methods that can be used.  Perhaps someone else demonstrates it, but Mr. Raffan is the only example I can recall showing how effective a roughing pull cut with a spindle gouge can be.  Not everyone is trying to pay the bills turning bowls, and doesn't have to pay attention to how long it takes to finish turning, but some of us don't have that luxury.

None of us have to attempt production turning techniques, but there is educational value in being exposed to them.  A production chair leg spindle turning video I happened across showed a very useful design element - major design elements were the width of a skew chisel apart, eliminating the need for additional marking layout.  And by completing most of the turning just with the skew chisel, time to repeatedly put one tool down and pick up another is saved.

Every turner constantly has to make decisions as to whether a particular tool or movement in a particular situation is something they should try, whether or not it is a production technique.
Back to top
  
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Register To Remove Ads
Ed Weber
WR Administrator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 8,440

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: How long does it take?
Reply #22 - Feb 17th, 2021 at 8:37pm
 
Don Stephan wrote on Feb 17th, 2021 at 7:00pm:
But unlike Ed I find the video extremely useful

I never said it wasn't useful, you assumed that

I can appreciate his skill and of course I learned things watching the video way back when.
It's just one of those things that's stuck with me as something you shouldn't be showing to a person just learning to turn a bowl. Maybe later on after some skills are acquired but not on day one. I know he can turn a bowl, he's supposed to be teaching me, not showing off.
To me it had the look of someone who has become too comfortable with their tools to the point that they're almost complacent or cocky, not a good scenario around power tools.
I've been working with and around tools for 40+ years and it just didn't sit well with me.

I have no issue with production turners or their methods of work.
These methods are not for the masses, they are for a special segment of turners. This situation is true for almost any profession.
This is why I said many don't make good teachers IMO

Everyone learns in different ways, just find what works for you and be safe.



Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
robo_hippy
WR Addict
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,465

Eugene, OR, USA
Eugene, OR
USA

Re: How long does it take?
Reply #23 - Feb 18th, 2021 at 12:32pm
 
I think that Richard Raffen video should have had the disclaimer 'I am a professional, don't try this at home'.....

robo hippy
Back to top
  
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Administrator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 8,440

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: How long does it take?
Reply #24 - Feb 18th, 2021 at 1:52pm
 
robo_hippy wrote on Feb 18th, 2021 at 12:32pm:
I think that Richard Raffen video should have had the disclaimer 'I am a professional, don't try this at home'.....

robo hippy

Agreed  Thumbs Up

I just think when you're trying to "teach' someone how to perform a task, you need to start with the basics, the safety, the tools involved, etc, BEFORE you start in with the short-cuts.

JMO
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Don Stephan
WR Addict
*****
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 2,510

Cincinnati, Ohio, Ohio, USA
Cincinnati, Ohio
Ohio
USA

Gender: male
Re: How long does it take?
Reply #25 - Feb 18th, 2021 at 7:32pm
 
I would be interested in seeing some videos that cover the basics in detail, clearly explaining what a flute is; what it means to open a flute; close a flute in different situations; what open the flute to 3 o'clock means; what are the possible causes of skating when trying to begin a cut to true the bottom of a bowl; showing what are primary and secondary bevels; showing what a heel is and what compressed wood looks like in green and dry wood; why a primary bevel can be as narrow as 3/16" and still function; how to analyze issues such as skating, rough cuts, et cetera and look for solutions; and on and on.

I've watched a number of over-the-counter videos in our turning group library, and I've yet to see one that truly covers "the basics."

And I want to see videos on various topics at different skill levels, including production turning, to know what is possible, and to give me an appreciation for those who are more advanced.
Back to top
  
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Glenn Jacobs
WR Addict
*****
Online


JC L&S

Posts: 1,934

North DFW, Texas, USA
North DFW
Texas
USA

Gender: male

Powermatic 3520C
Re: How long does it take?
Reply #26 - Feb 20th, 2021 at 9:09am
 
I find Wortheffort informative. Go past the safety and watch the technique he uses. IMHO his teaching gives me insight to try different things.

Glenn J.
Back to top
  
Glenn+J  
IP Logged
 
Ed Weber
WR Administrator
WR Patron
*****
Offline



Posts: 8,440

Wilton, California, USA
Wilton
California
USA

Gender: male

JET 1642
Grizzly G0584
Re: How long does it take?
Reply #27 - Feb 20th, 2021 at 1:39pm
 
As I said, every learns differently

For the most part, (there are always exceptions) I prefer videos without any commentary, I would rather to see what someone is actually doing, not watch them try to describe it to me.
For me it's difficult to "get past" safety issues and poor tool usage and care. IMO these things show a lack of respect and attention for the task at hand.
We're all guilty of some of these transgressions from time to time, I'm certainly no exception. The point is, you're making a video for mass consumption. Don't you think you can behave for the short amount of time it takes to make a video?

As to turning "teaching" videos, I'm no expert, as I've not watched too many different people.
In my limited viewing, I've found Jimmy Clewes as a good teacher of the basics, at least for me it just clicked.

I don't tend to focus too much on what the "experts" can do, In a certain sense, I don't really care what they can do. At the end of the day, I'm the one who has to put the tool in my hand and turn. Watching an "expert" for too long gets you nowhere. I would much rather develop my own skills that try to mimic someone else's.
Watching an "expert" should be used as a guide only. Just because a tool or a grind or even a certain technique works for some guy who made a video, in no way means it's correct, proper, safe or will work the same way for you.
As to the whole speed and efficiency matter, I'll say this, you can't simply try to speed up, that does not work.
As you get more proficient by repeating/practicing the same task, the time it takes naturally decreases as you become more confident is your own  skills.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Don Stephan
WR Addict
*****
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 2,510

Cincinnati, Ohio, Ohio, USA
Cincinnati, Ohio
Ohio
USA

Gender: male
Re: How long does it take?
Reply #28 - Feb 20th, 2021 at 8:09pm
 
We should be able to disagree.  Mr. Clewes demonstrates turning at speeds some find unsafe, but that doesn't mean everything he shows and explains is unsafe.  The viewer has to take from the video what he or she feels is useful and appropriate for his or her background and wants, regardless of who is being filmed.

I pick up a subtle nuance on tool position, tool cutting edge shape, tool presentation, et cetera almost every time I watch a Raffan video, and I can't say that about very many other turners.  I don't have to try to work as fast as he does, but basic economics requires that I turn as efficiently as I can, safely.  That does not make me a bad person.  I am not to the best of my knowledge advocating unsafe practices.  Many posts on this forum have been extremely helpful to me, and when I think I may have something useful and safe to share I will do so.

No doubt every one of us occasionally does not agree with an expressed opinion, and that should be okay to everyone.  Some like red oak, some don't.  Some like carbide tipped tools, some don't.  Some are happy taking hours and hours to turn a bowl, some aren't.  None of these are right or wrong.
Back to top
  
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Register To Remove Ads
Jeff Vanden Boogart
WR Addict
*****
Offline


WR Rocks!

Posts: 882

Rural Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
Rural Green Bay
Wisconsin
USA

Gender: male

PM 3520
Re: How long does it take?
Reply #29 - Feb 20th, 2021 at 9:51pm
 
I like Lyle Jamieson...even if he refuses to use a chuck Smiley
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print