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Bruce Kamp Active Member Offline WR Rocks! Posts: 230	Final polish Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 8:41pm I have been using rottonstone to do my final finishing of oil based poly. It gives me a nice hand rubbed look. Many have said that rottonstone is old fashioned. What is used in its place these days?
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Louie Powell

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Re: Final polish
Reply #1 - Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 11:19am

Exactly what's wrong with 'old fashioned'?

My perception is that there are two fairly common approaches to polishing. One involves the use of an abrasive paste. EEE-Ultrashine (from Australia), Dr. Kirk's Scratch Freee (from the US) or Yorkshire Grit (from the UK) are commercial brands, and Daniel Villarino has a YouTube video on a shop-made version. All are some combination of tripoli (aka, rottenstone), a solvent, and wax. They can be used as a final stage of polishing the timber before applying the finish, or as way to polish an oil finish after it has cured.

The other approach is buffing, with the Beall Buffing system the most obvious example. Buffing is generally done after the oil finish has cured and generally consists of three steps, with the first step using a tripoli and wax material, followed by a 'white diamond" step (which I believe is silica and wax), and finally, carnauba wax.

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« Last Edit: Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 11:22am by Louie Powell »

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Ron Carrabotta

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Re: Final polish
Reply #2 - Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 3:45pm

Bruce,

I was using a 4 step process on my rattle can lacquer pieces, #2 pumice, #4 pumice, rotten stone, (using sheepskin 3"pads & mineral) with a final polish using 3M Finesse-it II.
Switched to using the Beall system with the except that I don't use Carnauba wax, I use Renaissance Wax instead.
I haven't been able to notice any discernable difference between the two methods other than the Beall system is quicker.
If you switch from Carnauba to Ren wax on your Beall system be sure to remove ALL of the Carnauba wax from the wheel or you will get fingerprints, which you won't get with Ren wax.
Works well on varnish too.
RC

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« Last Edit: Sep 24^th, 2016 at 5:32am by Ron Carrabotta »

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Bruce Kamp Active Member Offline WR Rocks! Posts: 230	Re: Final polish Reply #3 - Oct 9^th, 2016 at 8:52pm Ron, It sounds like Finesse It II is a finer "grit" than rottonstone. Is that correct? Do you recommend one over the other or to use both?
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Bruce Kamp Active Member Offline WR Rocks! Posts: 230	Re: Final polish Reply #4 - Oct 9^th, 2016 at 9:18pm Also, does anyone have experience using micro mesh? Some say it can substitute for rottonstone if you go through all the grits.
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Steve nix Senior Member Offline WR Rocks! Posts: 323 Iota Louisiana USA Gender: 1642 Jet, RobustAB	Re: Final polish Reply #5 - Oct 9^th, 2016 at 9:35pm Ron, how long do you let the renaissance wax set, if any, before you buff it.
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Re: Final polish
Reply #6 - Oct 10^th, 2016 at 10:04am

Bruce Kamp wrote on Oct 9^th, 2016 at 9:18pm:

Also, does anyone have experience using micro mesh? Some say it can substitute for rottonstone if you go through all the grits.

A demonstrator at Utah Symposium a few years ago turned me on to a product called Mirlon Total, a very good mesh product for polishing wood. It is made by Mirka abrasives.
I find it excellent, and a small piece goes a long way. I find it puts a shine on wood by itself burnishing the natural oils of the wood. JMHO

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Re: Final polish
Reply #7 - Oct 10^th, 2016 at 10:28am

Bert Delisle wrote on Oct 10^th, 2016 at 10:04am:

Also, does anyone have experience using micro mesh? Some say it can substitute for rottonstone if you go through all the grits.

A demonstrator at Utah Symposium a few years ago turned me on to a product called Mirlon Total, a very good mesh product for polishing wood. It is made by Mirka abrasives.

Micro Mesh and Mirlon are two distinctly different products.
I don't want people to confuse the two.

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Bruce Kamp Active Member Offline WR Rocks! Posts: 230	Re: Final polish Reply #8 - Oct 11^th, 2016 at 9:56pm Thanks for pointing out Mirlon. I have ordered some abranet and some micro mesh. Looking forward to trying them both out. Most of the reviews on abranet seem very positive.
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Bruce Kamp

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Re: Final polish
Reply #9 - Oct 13^th, 2016 at 10:06pm

Received my abranet and micro mesh today. Wow! Tried MM first on some bowls I had finished with poly. Got the finish to the gloss I wanted quickly.
Then experimented with abranet. Went through all the grits on a piece of cherry. It was like glass after 600., even on the end grain.
I am anxious to try them both under different circumstances just to better understand what it can do.
Have to say I am impressed.

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Re: Final polish
Reply #10 - Oct 14^th, 2016 at 7:44am

Glad you're enjoying the process! Different finishes take different lengths of time to reach full cure/hardness, and I've always read that rubbing out should await final cure/hardness. Some manufacturers will offer suggest cure times, but if you get "corms" best to wait a few more days. I've always found Jeff Jewitt's books on finishing very helpful, as is experimenting.

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Bruce Kamp

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Re: Final polish
Reply #11 - Oct 14^th, 2016 at 10:21am

Ahhh, the time to cure question. I have been trying to get a better feel for it. From what I have read there is drying and then there is curing. Drying happens rather fast. It seems the criteria there is "not tacky". Curing is different. As poly cures it gets harder. However, how long before it's hard enough to polish?
I even read one place that poly may never fully cure. It seems, though, that most of the curing happens early on. However, since we are talking about the need to know how many days before polishing a safe time, like a month, may not be an acceptable answer. I tried calling Min Wax. Of course I got the safe answer there. One month. I know it makes a difference on wood, temp, humidity. But it would be nice to be able to establish a working standard for my environment.
I was hoping to get some sort of an answer like "...after X days it is Y% cured and safe for polishing.
I did find this on one site " Drying occurs when the solvents evaporate from the surface of the film and it becomes tack free. Curing is when the residual solvents leave the film and it begins crosslinking with oxygen in the air to develop its strength, toughness, abrasion resistance, and chemical resistance. Although most finishes reach 90% cure in seven days, full cure takes up to thirty days."
In the meantime it seems my best option is to experiment and be safe by waiting. It's just that I don't want to wait a month to do the final finish/polish.
What has been your experience?
Thank you.

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« Last Edit: Oct 14^th, 2016 at 10:49am by Bruce Kamp »

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Ron Sardo

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Re: Final polish
Reply #12 - Oct 14^th, 2016 at 11:03am

Bruce Kamp wrote on Oct 14^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

I was hoping to get some sort of an answer

Sniff the dried finish, if it smells like finish its not cured.

There is no such thing as
Bruce Kamp wrote on Oct 14^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

"...after X days it is Y% cured and safe for polishing."

How long it takes depends on a multitude of things that deal with your environment and the particular product you are using as a finish.

Bruce Kamp wrote on Oct 14^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

It's just that I don't want to wait a month to do the final finish/polish.

Sometimes you have to.

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Ron Sardo WR Administrator WR Patron Offline Chief cook and bottle washer Posts: 9,675 Drums Pennsylvania USA PM 3520	Re: Final polish Reply #13 - Oct 14^th, 2016 at 11:04am Steve nix wrote on Oct 9^th, 2016 at 9:35pm: Ron, how long do you let the renaissance wax set, if any, before you buff it. As soon as it hazes you can buff it
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Bruce Kamp

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Re: Final polish
Reply #14 - Oct 14^th, 2016 at 5:54pm

Ron,
One of the things I have noticed relative to all the variables is a project I have that uses padauk. Padauk is an oily wood and finish seems to take wayyyy more time to dry/cure than, say, maple or walnut.
I guess I am going to have to just continue experimenting and learning. The learning I like because once I figure it out I can make use of it over and over again.

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