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Perplexing finishing problem (Read 322 times)
 
Bruce Kamp
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Perplexing finishing problem
Feb 24th, 2021 at 2:15pm
 
Help! I have not encountered this before. The picture shows a walnut bowl I turned from a butcher block counter piece. The turning went fine. I have recently been trying Yorkshire Grit. I used it on the bowl as the final sanding medium. I then applied rattle can lacquer satin. Most of the piece turned out fine. However, I was left with spots similar to what you see in the bottom. The first spots were different shape than what is shown here. I have tried all sorts of things to no avail. I sanded the bottom back, cleaned it with acetone and then applied lacquer again. I have applied a number of coats of lacquer, sanding smooth after each one, thinking it was absorbing into the wood. Thinking that if I built it up enough it would blend in with the rest.
When I wet sand these spots seem to soak up the water different than the surrounding area. That led me to try to apply shellac thinking I would seal it. Still no change.
As you can see, the sides are just fine.
Does anybody have a suggestion as to what is going on here?
Thank you.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #1 - Feb 24th, 2021 at 4:27pm
 
You've got a lot going on there in one piece.
Is this a piece of used butcher block? Unknown contaminants and oils could be present.
Yorkshire grit has Beeswax in it I believe, not the sort of thing you want under lacquer. Lacquer is a top coat, it doesn't penetrate into the wood, it sits on top and tries to adhere to whatever is on the surface, whether it's bare wood or another finish.
Lacquer doesn't really need to be sanded in between coats, since like shellac, it melts into the previous coat, no need to scuff the surface for a mechanical connection.
In this type of situation, you might be better off sanding back and starting over. It stinks but sometimes it's easier than chasing your tail looking for something that might solve the problem.
A lacquer sanding sealer might be the way to go before your top coat.

All just suggestions, I'm sure there will be others.
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Don Stephan
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #2 - Feb 24th, 2021 at 7:31pm
 
A couple minor questions.  First, is the "rattle can lacquer" nitrocellulose lacquer and lacquer thinner, or one of the newer products that contains other ingredients?  Second, was the shellac dewaxed?
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Bruce Kamp
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #3 - Feb 24th, 2021 at 10:38pm
 
I am not sure on the lacquer. It is Deft spray satin lacquer. I will search more for its makeup.
The shellac was dewaxed.
I had  also rubbed down the entire bowl with acetone before spraying since I too was concerned about the beeswax in Yorkshire Grit. I have posted questions and looked at their website and the claim seemed to be that I could apply any finish over it. It’s funny because it is only this one spot that is the problem.
Would lacquer sanding sealer worked any better under lacquer than dewaxed shellac?

Thank you
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Bruce Kamp
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #4 - Feb 25th, 2021 at 1:15pm
 
If I do decide to sand back the lacquer finish I would expect that I would then try to apply poly. Although you shouldn’t apply poly over lacquer will there be enough residue of the lacquer in the wood to cause me problems if I do a good job of sanding?
I plan to teat the poly on the spot before I try this. I will sand it back there and apply some poly to see what happens.
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Bruce Kamp
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #5 - Feb 27th, 2021 at 2:41pm
 
I have decided to sand back and redo with poly. I am testing this by first just redoing the bottom spot of this bowl. I have sanded and then applied Danish Oil. So far it looks good. I will wait a few days before applying poly to this test area. If that pans out I will sand back the entire bowl.
In the first pass the problem didn’t show up with the application of the Danish Oil. So I am still a little apprehensive here.
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Don Stephan
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #6 - Feb 27th, 2021 at 7:30pm
 
Are you using the commercial product named Danish Oil or are you mixing your own?  If the latter, what is in the mix?

Something that just came to mind, is the cloudy area in your photo well adhered to the surface, or can it easily be peeled off?
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« Last Edit: Feb 27th, 2021 at 7:32pm by Don Stephan »  
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Bruce Kamp
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #7 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 2:18pm
 
Using Watkins.
It’s interesting because the cloudy area seems to absorb. The areas around it seem to react normal. Finish stays on surface. The spotted area just seems to absorb whatever is applied. I have tried to build it up using numerous Coates and it halos a little but not enough to make it disappear.
Dewaxed shellac did not seem to seal it.
I am hoping that with poly sitting on the surface that will be enough to seal it off.
I want to let the Danish cure for a few days before I apply the poly. I will report back later this eeek.
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Don Stephan
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #8 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 7:51pm
 
While it might not be enough to fill pores and create a level surface, even two coats of a good danish oil should seal the surface.  My guess is that something is preventing the first coat from penetrating and bonding with the surface.  Any additional coats would build the film thickness, but not affect the lack of adhesion between the wood and the first coat.

My suggestion would be to take the bowl to a woodworking supply store, hoping someone there is a finishing "expert."
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Mike Nathal
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #9 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 8:45am
 
I have this one walnut crotch platter that has given me fits, as some areas (edited out) up the finish more than others. Your photo reminds me of that platter.  Over the last two years, I have added countless coats of oil base poly, danish oil, different application strategies, steel wool, scrubbing, you name it.   I finally decided to remove the poly and try Osmo Polyx on it. Two coats of Osmo everywhere and 4 coats in the problem areas worked like a charm.
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Don Stephan
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #10 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 7:24pm
 
Mike

Curious about your issues with that platter.  Allowing drying time between coats, I've not had to apply more than three before the thirsty areas stop absorbing the next coat almost immediately.  But it sometimes takes several more coats, again with drying time after each, to build to a uniform sheen.

No doubt Ed will chip in that because danish oil includes a resin it is a film building rather than penetrating finish.  As soon as the pores are plugged, following applications stay on the surface of the prior coat.  At least that is my understanding.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #11 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 8:08pm
 
Don Stephan wrote on Mar 1st, 2021 at 7:24pm:
No doubt Ed will chip in that because danish oil includes a resin it is a film building rather than penetrating finish.  As soon as the pores are plugged, following applications stay on the surface of the prior coat.  At least that is my understanding.


That's how it works
That's why most all the instructions tell you to flood the surface until it can absorb no more.
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chris lawrence
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #12 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 9:36pm
 
You could try wet sanding with 400 grit sand paper and the danish oil.
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Tony Rozendaal
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #13 - Mar 2nd, 2021 at 9:13pm
 
Bruce Kamp wrote on Feb 24th, 2021 at 2:15pm:
When I wet sand these spots seem to soak up the water different than the surrounding area.
Thank you.


How long are you waiting after you wet sand? If you have moisture in the wood, you will never get a satisfactory finish until you give it time to dry, really dry before you continue with your finishing process. How long that takes depends a lot on various factors, such as your location and whether you are in a heated or air conditioned shop.
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Mike Nathal
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #14 - Mar 5th, 2021 at 6:50pm
 
Don Stephan wrote on Mar 1st, 2021 at 7:24pm:
urious about your issues with that platter.  Allowing drying time between coats, I've not had to apply more than three before the thirsty areas stop absorbing the next coat almost immediately.  But it sometimes takes several more coats, again with drying time after each, to build to a uniform sheen.

No doubt Ed will chip in that because danish oil includes a resin it is a film building rather than penetrating finish.  As soon as the pores are plugged, following applications stay on the surface of the prior coat.  At least that is my understanding.


My experience and practice is consistent with yours, with the exception of this one platter.  I cannot explain it.
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #15 - Mar 6th, 2021 at 9:00am
 
Nothing a good coat of paint wouldn't solve!!! Shocked Grin
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Bruce Kamp
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #16 - Mar 9th, 2021 at 12:29pm
 
I have re-sanded the entire bowl, including wet sanding. Let it dry. I was going to apply Danish oil  but then thought I would try Mahoney’s walnut oil instead. Mixed reviews on it about hardening, drying time, etc. I thought this might be a finish I could use and not have to topcoat with lacquer or poly.
After a couple of days drying it looks good so far. Going to do at least one more coat and then let dry for extended period. I have placed in my kiln, fan and heat, at about 80 degrees.
Will post results.
Thanks everyone
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Ralph Fahringer
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #17 - Mar 9th, 2021 at 6:09pm
 
Fingers crossed hoping to see a nice finish on that nice bowl. Smiley
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Bruce Kamp
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Re: Perplexing finishing problem
Reply #18 - Mar 19th, 2021 at 1:45pm
 
Finally finished . It's a solution that worked. Maybe not the best one but I was getting desperate.
I sanded it all back then applied three coats of Mahoney's Walnut Oil. Let each coat dry. Then buffed and applied Ren wax and polished that.
It really soaked up the walnut oil. Probably could have applied more. It was interesting in that the walnut oil dried very smooth without even removing excess. It just seemed to soak in. Left a matt finish so the buffing and wax helped give it  little sheen.
Overall I am pleased with the results. Still do not know what caused the problem in the first place. But, as always seems to be the case, I learned something.
Thank you all for your responses and help.
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