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Bill Neff
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Different finishes
Oct 19th, 2023 at 5:20pm
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I recently joined a Facebook turning group and it amazes me what turners use as finish.   For example a large number use Howards Feed & Wax or just wax (beeswax, carnauba or Renaissance).  To me those are a temporary coating that won't last. Looks nice but is it really a finish.  Of course the same could be said of some oils, but to me a finish is something that is "cured" or "dried" like polymerized walnut/tung oil.  Others are the abrasive pastes.  Are they a finish or a fine sanding? I guess if you put it on last it's a finish.

I don't know if I'm explaining this very well. Maybe since I just turned 71 it's the curmudgeon coming out. (excuse me I have to go yell at some kids walking on my lawn) Smiley
  

Some people are like slinkies... totally worthless but it puts a smile on your face when you push them down the stairs.
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Ron Sardo
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Re: Different finishes
Reply #1 - Oct 20th, 2023 at 12:19pm
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facebook needs more curmudgeons and less armchair experts who parrot other armchair experts.

I guess I just joined the curmudgeon club. Smiley
  

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Don Stephan
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Re: Different finishes
Reply #2 - Oct 20th, 2023 at 11:22pm
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You have an opportunity to provide needed education and understanding to those members of the group.

Does one buy Feed and Wax because they think they are fortifying wood, something that is not alive and thus cannot be fed?

Encourage some of the members to join with you in trials of some of the finishes and coatings.  5" square pieces of board will work well, doesn't have to be actual bowls.  Sand some to 150, some to 220, some to 320.  One one set of each grit, wax, buff, and label.  Another set, a coat of boiled linseed oil, several days to cure, ;label, a 2nd coat of BLO, a couple days to cure..  On another set, a couple coats of linseed oil as before, label, after curing wax and buff.  Another set a film forming finish, such as poly, following the label instructions, label.  And one set no finish or coating, just the sanded surface.

After all have cured, begin washing daily with a soft sponge and couple drops of mild dish soap, rinse well, towel dry and then air dry to the following day.  After 30 days evaluate and report to the group.  And to this group please.
  
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Ed Weber
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Re: Different finishes
Reply #3 - Oct 21st, 2023 at 6:28pm
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Well speaking curmudgeonly, there seems to be a misunderstanding about finishes at a very basic level among many woodworkers these days.
Many times, turners specifically, are impatient and want the fastest application and drying finish for their piece to free up the lathe. This leads to all of the suspect finishes you're seeing.

When I started, I began using Friction Polish, like many do. I still have hlaf a the original can,  because it's not durable enough for me. Nothing more than a quick seal and wax that wears off rather quickly. NOT a finish in my book.

It's difficult, at best, to try to "provide needed education and understanding" as Don said. Far too many are not receptive to anything other than advice from a YT influencer.

You're not alone Bill
  
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Bill Neff
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Re: Different finishes
Reply #4 - Oct 23rd, 2023 at 2:53pm
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I like the idea of different finish tests. On Youtube the turner named Tomislav did something similar.  If I remember right Odie's Oil performed the worse of the 4 finishes.

I will occasionally mix up a bottle of friction polish but I use for things like snowmen or icicles where I want to put a finish on it but not spend a lot of time. 

The other thing I've noticed is that almost everyone compliments every piece posted.  I'm all for encouraging especially for beginners, but when you see a dog bowl with tool marks and tear out the the person said they sanded to 3000grit, I think a little dose of reality needs to be added.  I miss the days here when someone would post work and there would be an honest but gentle critique   I learn from what I did wrong.  I also try to use a former boss's critque technique.  He lead with a positive, then addressed the issue and then finished up with another positive.  He felt criticisms could really harm a person's self esteem.
  

Some people are like slinkies... totally worthless but it puts a smile on your face when you push them down the stairs.
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Ed Weber
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Re: Different finishes
Reply #5 - Oct 23rd, 2023 at 11:44pm
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Yep, these days everyone is an expert snowflake.
They know everything and can't be criticized. 
The fawning comments on any YT video are enough to make you sick.
Dog bowls are dog bowls, no matter who makes them.
  
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Dale Dykhouse
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Re: Different finishes
Reply #6 - Nov 12th, 2023 at 7:08pm
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Ed Weber wrote on Oct 21st, 2023 at 6:28pm:
Well speaking curmudgeonly, there seems to be a misunderstanding about finishes at a very basic level among many woodworkers these days.
Many times, turners specifically, are impatient and want the fastest application and drying finish for their piece to free up the lathe. This leads to all of the suspect finishes you're seeing.

When I started, I began using Friction Polish, like many do. I still have hlaf a the original can,  because it's not durable enough for me. Nothing more than a quick seal and wax that wears off rather quickly. NOT a finish in my book.

It's difficult, at best, to try to "provide needed education and understanding" as Don said. Far too many are not receptive to anything other than advice from a YT influencer.

You're not alone Bill

So what are you using now?
  
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Ed Weber
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Re: Different finishes
Reply #7 - Nov 12th, 2023 at 8:52pm
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I use a variety of things.
I typically apply X finish with the piece on the lathe to cure overnight, This way I can free up the lathe in the morning and the piece can be handled if necessary. I'm fortunate enough to have a few chucks, so I am able to leave the piece mounted and easily re=mounted on the lathe if required.
I use polyurethane/oil finishes (usually Generals Finishes brand), citrus/tung oil blend, anything really.
I don't require my finish to be fast-cure, I really don't believe in rushing a finish, typically those are the least protective IME
There's more than on wat to skin a cat, whatever works for you
  
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Edgar Sims
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Re: Different finishes
Reply #8 - Aug 15th, 2024 at 8:19pm
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Ed W.
Could you expound a bit on your finishing methods? For several years I used Behr wipe on varnish and had good results with it using 2/3coats cut back with 3/400 grit and polishing with wax and steel wool. Seems, they were bought out by Mohawk who claimed they had the identical product which I have tried but just can't get the same results. I've tried some other brands but haven't had great results. I'd like to know, if you will, which General finish product you use-bowl finish or? Do you cut or thin the first coat or full strength? Do you sand between coats and so on.
I turn mostly Mesquite just because I have it. I live in Arizona desert so humidly is usually low and I'm old and patience about drying time.
Thanks, Ed Sims
  
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Ed Weber
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Re: Different finishes
Reply #9 - Aug 15th, 2024 at 9:12pm
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Edgar, I use the bowl finish (used to be salad bowl finish)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links). It has more oils in it and IME better penetration than the Arm R seals, which are top coats. It's not clear, there is a slight tint but I find, if used on certain woods, it doesn't matter.

Another product I use is Half & half, no not the creamer.
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A good tung oil finish that doesn't stink you out of the shop.

I've had a similar circumstance where product A was bought out and product B was "supposed to be the same" but never really worked out for me either.
  
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Edgar Sims
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Re: Different finishes
Reply #10 - Aug 15th, 2024 at 10:02pm
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Thanks for the help, Ed. I'll give it a try
Ed
  
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Re: Different finishes
Reply #11 - Aug 16th, 2024 at 11:28am
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From another curmudgeon - - -

I make my own finishes using pure Tung oil, various solvents, and commercial lacquers and varnishes.  I also keep a can of commercial WOP in the shop, but I don't use it very often - I prefer a finish that is less plasticky.  I like Howard's FeedN'Wax, and occasionally use it when I need something really fast, but I normally reserve it for polishing finished pieces.  My usual selection includes:

  •   Lacquer-based friction polish (1:1:1 brushing lacquer, tung oil, lacquer thinner) - pens and other small items.
  •   Wipe-on lacquer (1:1 brushing lacquer, lacquer thinner) - stoppers and other items where I want to avoid the amber color of associated with oil-based finishes
  •   Pure-oil finish (1:1 tung oil and limonene) - scoops, spoons, etc
  •   Shop-made tung oil varnish ((1:1:1 pure tung oil, alkyd varnish, turpentine) - when I choose to not use one of the above, ie, most of the time
  •   I have made a version of the shop-made varnish using a commercial polyurethane/Tung oil varnish on items that may get heavy use/abuse (ie, walking sticks and canes)


I also keep shellac, but reserve it for use as a sanding sealer before using an oil finish rather than as a final finish itself.

When using oil finishes, I wipe it on, let it sit for 30-45 minutes, wipe off any excess, wait 2-3 hours, buff with a gray Scotchbrite pad, and repeat.  Typically three applications, but sometimes more.  I may also either use a polishing wax or buff to leave a smooth surface, but not so much to create a glossy finish.

I make up small quantities of finishes that I store in recycled glass jars (that formerly contained spices from the supermarket).  A small jar remains usable until depleted, and my wife provides a steady supply of replacements when they get too gummy.  Commercial brushing lacquer seems to last in the can, but commercial varnish eventually self-cures.  I recently tried to use a 'stop-loss bag' to store bulk commercial varnishes, but found that the process of decanting the varnish from the can to the bag was very fiddly; I accidentally dropped an open full quart can of rather expensive Tung-oil varnish so I'm looking for a better solution.
« Last Edit: Aug 16th, 2024 at 11:37am by Louie Powell »  

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David Moeller
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Re: Different finishes
Reply #12 - Aug 16th, 2024 at 6:26pm
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I have an Associate Degree in Curmudgeonry awarded based on life experience.
   I do mostly med to small items anymore and shakercan clear does well for me.
   50+ yrs ago a friend showed me a cutting board of end grain cherry. He had ruined his wife's iron melting paraffin deeply into the grain. After 20 yrs of regular use, washing with wet soapy wawa it still felt waxy. As a result, I coat the insides of bowls by using paraffin and my heatgun. All spoons and spatulas are treated this way.
   SO THERE!!! mutter, mutter, sputter. Angry
« Last Edit: Aug 16th, 2024 at 6:28pm by David Moeller »  

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Don Stephan
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Re: Different finishes
Reply #13 - Aug 17th, 2024 at 11:51pm
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Louie

Would you identify the alkyd varnish you use, and whether it is still sold?  I loved to use a thinned alkyd varnish, but two or so years ago it was discontinued.  An internet search at that time did not find any other available alkyd varnish.  Thank you.
  
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Louie Powell
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Re: Different finishes
Reply #14 - Aug 18th, 2024 at 12:04pm
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Don Stephan wrote on Aug 17th, 2024 at 11:51pm:
Louie

Would you identify the alkyd varnish you use, and whether it is still sold?  I loved to use a thinned alkyd varnish, but two or so years ago it was discontinued.  An internet search at that time did not find any other available alkyd varnish.  Thank you.



I use McCloskey's Man-o-War Tung Oil Spar Varnish.  Good stuff - but it's not cheap. Fortunately, in my applications, it goes a very long way (as long as I don't drop the can when decanting it into a Stop-Loss bag).

« Last Edit: Aug 18th, 2024 at 12:06pm by Louie Powell »  
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