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I am making a tiny vase. (Read 668 times)
 
Don R Davis
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I am making a tiny vase.
Feb 20th, 2020 at 12:21pm
 
The vase is going to be 3" at its widest point and 3" tall. I said tiny.  Smiley It will be a brick pattern with some dyed black veneer in between each brick. It will have nine layers of brick at 1/4" for each layer and 18 pieces per ring. Okay here is my question. Do I need to allow for the thickness of the veneer?
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Ron Sardo
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #1 - Feb 20th, 2020 at 2:51pm
 
18 segments x Veneer thickness = ?

Veneers come in different sizes. Lets say the veneer is 1/40" (.025).

18 x .025 = .45

Its your design, is .45 something to be concerned about?
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« Last Edit: Feb 20th, 2020 at 2:59pm by Ron Sardo »  

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Ed Weber
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #2 - Feb 20th, 2020 at 3:16pm
 
Don R Davis wrote on Feb 20th, 2020 at 12:21pm:
Do I need to allow for the thickness of the veneer?


If you glue it into your construction, then yes you need to allow for it.
Look at what Ron said or you could just add 1/40th" to your segment length. What ever is easier for you to calculate.
If you vessel is going to be 3" at the widest, then .45" could make a difference
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Ralph Fahringer
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #3 - Feb 20th, 2020 at 3:29pm
 
Why would you need to add to the LENGTH of the segment?

The veneer layers won't affect the width of the vessel but will affect the height.

They would add .45" to the height as they are going to be stacked between the segment layers.

..just sayin'.. Thumbs Up
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #4 - Feb 20th, 2020 at 3:43pm
 
Just thinking here.  Instead of adding veneer why not use wire burners??
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Ron Sardo
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #5 - Feb 20th, 2020 at 5:03pm
 
FWIW, I've taken a propane torch and burnt the edges that will be glued up. Makes an interesting look

Ralph Fahringer wrote on Feb 20th, 2020 at 3:29pm:
They would add .45" to the height as they are going to be stacked between the segment layers.

Well, that depends on where he's putting the veneer, between the segments, between the rings, or both
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Ralph Fahringer
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #6 - Feb 20th, 2020 at 5:11pm
 
Ohhh...  I was only thinking about them between layers, but between segments in a layer works to  Ed's thinking.

Thanks for that, Ron.  Thumbs Up
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Ed Weber
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #7 - Feb 20th, 2020 at 8:13pm
 
Ralph Fahringer wrote on Feb 20th, 2020 at 3:29pm:
The veneer layers won't affect the width of the vessel but will affect the height.

Depends on where they're placed.
If they're a layer unto themselves, you're right. only height is affected.
If they're used as spacers between segments, you need to allow for them with regards to diameter.
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Don R Davis
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #8 - Feb 20th, 2020 at 8:57pm
 
What I wanted to know is the segments going to fit with no gaps. I know I didn't myself clear at all. It being a brick pattern I need the veneer on all sides. The rings will be 1/4" thick but I am making them 1 inch thick I will cut them on the bandsaw. That is after I make a jig to cut them.
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Grant Wilkinson
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #9 - Feb 21st, 2020 at 7:51am
 
You don't need to change the angle of the segment cuts, if that is what you are asking. As others have said, clearly, the diameter of the rings will change by the total thickness of the veneer that you glue between the segments. If you want to be precise about that diameter, you need to take into account the thickness of the 18 pieces of veneer. You would reduce the size of the segments proportionately to retain the diameter of the ring.

As an aside, watch your fingers.   Smiley  If I have my figures right, the largest ring being 3" in diameter will have a segment width of about 3/8", taking into account the veneer. Assuming the vase is not straight-walled, all the other ring diameters will be smaller, making for very small segments
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« Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2020 at 7:54am by Grant Wilkinson »  

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Don R Davis
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #10 - Feb 22nd, 2020 at 8:07pm
 
Grant, what I am doing is making three rings that are one inch thick and all will be about three inches wide. I will then make a sled for my bandsaw and cut three rings 1/4" thick from each of the three one inch thick rings. This will give me a total of nine 1/4" thick rings. Doing it like this I think will be much easier. What do you think?
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Ron Sardo
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #11 - Feb 23rd, 2020 at 10:19am
 
Don R Davis wrote on Feb 22nd, 2020 at 8:07pm:
What do you think?


You need to consider the kerf width and how much you'll lose sanding the four glue edges to finally end up at the 1/4" thickness you want. 1" isn't enough
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Ed Weber
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #12 - Feb 23rd, 2020 at 11:33am
 
Slicing rings on the bandsaw is a great way to do it, but as Ron said, you need to allow for what's taken away
A ring of about 3/16"-7/32" is going to be more realistic if you're starting with 3/4" stock.
If you start with 3/4" stock and make two perfect cuts for the least amount of waste, you end up with three pieces. Your saw kerf is probably going to be about 1/32" and the sanding will take away even more.
Also, you need to consider that more than likely you'll have 2 pieces with one face to be sanded and a third with 2 faces to be sanded. These three pieces need to be sanded to equal thickness, so what ever you remove from the center cut piece (two rough faces), you need to remove from the other two as well. (unless you allowed for this when cutting)
It may seem an insignificant amount but it quickly adds up.
So you started with 3/4" made two cuts and sanded either four or six faces removing about a 32nd" from each piece.
So in total it's quite easy to remove anywhere from 1/8" (4/32") to 3/16" (6/32")
I hope that makes sense and I should mention this is a best case scenario.

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Don R Davis
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #13 - Feb 23rd, 2020 at 2:53pm
 
Well, it looks like I am going to make another ring. I have been using a 1/2" BS blade with three teeth per inch to do resawing do you think that is good enough?
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Ed Weber
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #14 - Feb 23rd, 2020 at 4:29pm
 
Three TPI is quite aggressive, how thick is the stock your cutting.
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Don R Davis
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #15 - Feb 23rd, 2020 at 8:08pm
 
I buy all my BS blades from Timber-Wolf and several years I ask the guy at TW what blade I should use for resawing lumber. He said for my saw (Grizzly 14") I needed a 1/2" blade with three teeth per inch. He said the gulets on the blade to be big to carry away the dust or chips. Of course, this may be a different situation. The rings are 3"X3" and 1" thick.
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Ed Weber
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #16 - Feb 23rd, 2020 at 9:26pm
 
1" is about the minimum thickness I would want to try with three TPI. With a height of 1" you could go quite high with your tooth count, 6, 8 or even 10 depending on the species.
Three TPI will leave a rougher surface than a higher tooth count would, there will be sanding.
SO, are you cutting 1" think stock OR cutting a slice from a 3" diameter ring or both?



Another thing to consider is what wood you're cutting Wood that is very hard (usually tropical) likes a higher tooth count, like you were cutting soft metal.
(if it's as hard as aluminum, treat it like it)

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Don R Davis
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #17 - Feb 24th, 2020 at 8:26am
 
I am cutting a 1/4" slice from a 3" diameter ring. The wood I am using is Padauk. I think I might need to do some test cuts and see what it looks like.
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #18 - Feb 24th, 2020 at 9:09am
 
As I understand it, you have rings that are 3" in diameter. Each ring is 1" thick. You want to cut each of them into 3 rings, each 1/4" thick when they are finish sanded.

I would use double-sided tape to tape the ring to a piece of MDF or something equally flat, which you could ride along your bandsaw fence. Use a blade with 6 or 8 teeth per inch and at least 1/2" wide. Slice the ring into three pieces, then use a drum sander, if you have one, to flatten them. It will be tight to get 3 good, flat rings of 1/4" each out of a 1" ring, but doable if your bandsaw is set up well, and the kerf of the blade is narrow.
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« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2020 at 9:09am by Grant Wilkinson »  

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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #19 - Feb 24th, 2020 at 9:11am
 
Test cuts would always be a good idea.
How are you holding your glue up? Is it  clamped or affixed to a guide or jig of some kind?
I have use double-stick tape quit often but you do need to be careful.
A lot of times I use nothing more than a piece of melamine to tape the ring or half ring to and cut successive slices. photos below
If you piece is taller than it is wide, I like having the support of the melamine, other times sleds work well. It all depends on the shape of what you're cutting
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #20 - Feb 29th, 2020 at 10:59am
 
3 tpi is for sawing logs in half while the log is on end to clear the swaf or along the grain of the wood. I use a 1/2" to 3/4" 6 tpi and I used to take off the pitch so it would be a smoother cut and I did not like the results.

It is a wonder the person at TW told you that unless he was new. I was really dumb about it 7 years ago and a manager told me what I said to you.
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #21 - Mar 14th, 2020 at 8:25pm
 
I finished my tiny vase this week and I think it turned out pretty good. It is 3 1/2" tall and 2 1/2" wide and has 332 pieces in it. I made a jig to slice my rings. I still can't believe it but I cut rings on the bandsaw using a 3/16" wide bandsaw blade. I am waiting for you guys to chime in and tell me what you think.

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Ed Weber
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #22 - Mar 14th, 2020 at 9:27pm
 
The spacing pieces (thin strips/veneer) really make the piece pop. Great way to enhance a small piece.
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Don R Davis
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #23 - Mar 16th, 2020 at 7:55am
 
Thanks, Ed, I like to do segments because I get to use my table saw, band saw, and other tools that you don't get to use just turning. I like it all. LOL
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Re: I am making a tiny vase.
Reply #24 - May 17th, 2020 at 10:49pm
 
I've cut rings with a 1/2" 3 tpi blade and they came out pretty good.  They still need a little sanding.  If I was going to do it often, I'd get a 1/2" blade with more teeth.  Go slow and let the blade do the cutting.  I've sliced them as narrow as 1/8".  I use double stick tape on an old table saw tenoning jig. Sort of a poor man's accuslicer.  Works great and keeps the fingers out of the way.
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